doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com 1oz 28 gauge shells

I posted a similar topic a year back in shooting a 1oz load of 7.5 shot. I thought I gave away or sold off the shells I inherited, but to my surprise I have another 3/4 flat missing two boxes.
So to be honest, I am very skeptical in even trying a box. The shells are the white box Winchester AA shells. I have shot nothing but 3/4oz loads through both my 28s.
Has anyone ran the extra 1/4 oz through there 28s?

I shot the 1 oz/7 1/2 Winchester 28 ga load through a Parker Reproduction for several grouse seasons back in the early 1990s.

They patterned well & killed grouse well. I never noticed any issues w/recoil but the 28 ga Parker reproductions were fairly heavy for their gauge & 10 shots in a day was a lot of shooting.

I've tried a few, as well as the 7/8 oz Fiocchi Golden Pheasants. For the most part, they're not necessary for the uses to which I put my 28ga--which are basically skeet, 5 stand if the course doesn't have a lot of very long targets, and smaller and/or more "fragile" game birds like woodcock, ruffed grouse, and quail. And early season prairie grouse.

I wonder whether some shooters on a sporting clays course might have recourse to the 1 oz load at the longer targets? But then their guns, in general, are also a good bit heavier than the 28's most of us use for hunting.

Hate to say but if I had a little auto in 28 I would most likely give them a go.

Hi, I've used these loads quite a bit when hunting for Sharptails. IMO they are a very effective load. They hammer the birds out to 35 yards. I use 6 shot in this loading. I also use (in my tighter choked bbl) a 1 1/16oz load that B&P offered (EXTRA ROSSA MAX) also in 6 shot (Italian, close to American size 6's). Both of these loads pattern very well in my Dickinson BTW.

I wouldn't hesitate to shoot these loads in any modern 28ga. Of course you'd need to pattern to see how they perform in your guns.

Just a side note, if anyone knows where a person can get some of the Extra Rossa Max in 1 1/16oz I'd appreciate it. According to Kari at Aerostar they are are no longer imported.

Good Luck and happy shooting!

Greg

I shot a case of them every year, two in good years, when growing up but mine were 6's not 7 1/2's. All for ducks, over decoys, under 30 yards. Did kill a few geese with them but I would not advise them for that job. All were Winchester paper hulls in those days. Wish I could go back and do it again.

Jack O'Connor wrote quite a bit about using 1 ounce loads in his 28-gauge Eusabio Arizaga. I've used these compression formed Winchester and Winchester-Western 28-gauge shells in my RBL for Pheasants --



and the Pheasants seemed to be just as dead as if they had been hit with a 12-gauge.

The box of paper Western Super-X MAGNUMs I've owned for a long time but it is still full. Probably from the time Cactus Jack was using them.

friend of mine in georgia does a lot of released pheasant tower shoots...his favorite combo is one oz. of 7 1/2's out of an open choked 28 gauge gun with heavy barrels...gun weighs 8 pounds, which he claims, swings like a dream and is very easy on his old arthritic shoulder...

A friend uses Win 1 oz. Watched him shoot some very nice patterns with them.

I've used the 1300 fps 15/16 oz B&Ps. Recoil in a 6# double isn't bad, and they extend effective range in a cylinder 28.

I never have been able to understand the Reason anyone would want to drop down to a 28 & then "Load it Up". A 20 gauge would be a much better choice for using 1 oz of shot. 1 oz of shot can be bought in either a Field or Express load in the 20 at much better prices than in the 28. Even if one reloads them components are much easier to come by & ore readily available. 1 oz in a 28 seems to me to be a problem much better answered with a 20. Just One persons opinion of course.

Traditionally, since the mid-1950s, we've had the choice of 1, 1 1/8, 1 1/4 and 1 1/2 ounce loads in the 2 3/4 inch 12-gauge shells. We've had the choice of 1, 1 1/8 and 1 1/4 in the 2 3/4 inch 16-gauge shells. We've had the choice of 7/8, 1 or 1 1/8 ounce in 2 3/4 inch 20-gauge shells. Why is all of a sudden wrong to have the choice of 3/4 ounce, 7/8 ounce and 1 ounce in the 28-gauge 2 3/4 inch shell?

Even back in the early days of the 28-gauge in North America, when the "standard" 28-gauge load was 1 3/4 drams of bulk smokeless powder pushing 5/8 ounce of shot out of a 2 1/2 inch shell and the faster load was 2 drams of bulk smokeless powder pushing that same 5/8 ounce of shot out of the 2 7/8 inch shell,





gun cranks like Chas. Askins were writing about getting their guns chambered for the 2 7/8 inch shell and hand loading 2 1/8 drams of bulk smokeless powder and 3/4 ounce or a bit more of shot. Probably some really high pressure loads!!

Sometimes we just enjoy trying to get something to "over-perform", Miller. I do that with a .410. I have found that the conventional wisdom about big loads in small bores equalling poor patterns is not necessarily true. My 3/4 oz. loads in my Dickinson .410 are perfectly regulated, and throw beautiful deadly patterns.

Why drop down to a smaller gauge and then load it up?................Just because we can.

SRH

2-piper in my case I had one gun. A Winchester Model 12 in 28 gauge. With that gun I hunted everything except deer. Dove, quail, rabbits, squirrels, snipe, rail, ducks and the unlucky crow. One gun for everything.

I got two cases of shells for my birthday in late August. One, one ounce factory loads of 7 1/2 shot and one of 6�s. Back in those days those cases held 500 shells not the flats of 250 today. That was to last me all hunting season long because back then 28�s were not stocked at the Western Auto store or my uncles Southern States store. If I had money either would order them for me but most years I never saved up enough for a full case. There was no extra price for being a 28 like there is today. Most times 28�s were same as the 20 or a little less.

You could get 12, 16 , 20 or even .410 by the box. Heck my uncle would sell shells to poor fellows, colored hunters, a few at the time if they wanted them. I�ve seen many a box with four or five shells missing. A man could come buy maybe a shell for ten cents or three for a quarter, maybe four or five for fifty cents. There�s was no sky busting in those days by those men. A lot of ground scraping I suspect, creeping up close for a easy shot or waiting until two birds or squirrels lined up for a two for one shot.

When I was a kid I bought plenty of shotgun shells at a dime apiece. My allowance was 28 cents a week. When I got older I asked why my allowance was that odd figure, he told me that was all he had in his pocket the first time I asked. I never minded working though...Geo

I used to buy them 5 at a time from the general store about a half mile from my house. I can remember getting my mother to drop me off at the store to buy 50 cents worth of shells and then squirrel hunting in the woods between the store and my house. Times have changed.

I don't own a 28 gauge, but I know there are a lot of folks turkey hunting with them now. A popular load is a 1.5 oz. Gotta make those yourself.

Hey Geo. Did you save any of those Indian head pennies, V Nickles, mercury dimes or standing liberty quarter? That .28 cents went a lot further then than today. You could not get as much joy for 2.80 today. Maybe 28.00.

Jon, that 28 cents got spent so fast I'd never have noticed a collectible coin. Story of my life, money's good for nothing but to buy something...Geo

With the Blessing of a kind Providence those somethings might actually become wealth.

There was 28ga Belgian gun on Guns International that just sold that was proofed with 75mm (2 7/8") chambers. I think it was a 1929 gun. Last picture has a good look at the proof marks.

http://www.gunsinternational.com/guns-fo...un_id=101004942

Geo. Me too. I did spend some money I inherited to buy cutover timber land at tax sales. Of course cut over timber grows back a lot in 40-50 years. Some has been cut twice, some needs for timber prices to get a little higher. I did save a lot of those old pennies, nickels and dimes. Quarters got spent. Still have those old coins so they haven�t done me much good yet. Heck it�s hard enough to see the dates on them some days. I just tell myself some days the light is better than others.

Matt, looks like 1929 to me too. Back then, it wasn't all that unusual to find 28ga guns with 2 7/8" chambers, even in the US. And 2 7/8" shells were also available. But the ones to which I can find reference were still loaded with only 3/4 oz shot.

I exclusively use only 1 oz loads in my three 28 gauge shotguns. Not much into "clay" pigeon shooting, but live birds like turkeys, crows and barn yard pigeons they are just deadly and I have a lot more fun shooting a 28 than a 20 gauge. I have about 25 boxes of #7 1/2 and 25 of #6 shot in stock at the moment. I mostly use my SxS and single barrel for turkey hunting, but my "go to" pigeon & crow gun is my Benelli Ethos 3" 28 gauge. And at 5 lb 5 oz, it is easy to keep up with those diving and darting black devils coming to the owl/crow decoys and a lot more fun than shooting the "orange birds" that always seem to me to be on a more predictable course and I don't have to pay anyone for a few hours of shooting each time I go out.



SxS Only

Thanks Larry.

SxS only: I have a 28 gauge Benelli Legacy. It is so light I can't shoot it worth a crap. Swings about like a broomstick. And, out of a gun so light, the 1 oz loads kick a lot more than one would think.

When I used to shoot 28ga Ruger Red Label the load was around 3/4 oz (about same as original 20ga one) and it worked ok for me. What you show there has power of at least 16ga "Walmart Load". Not bad if one wants to make modern 28ga all around gun. Italians load 28ga to 1&1/8oz 'Low Noise'
65mm case and 1&1/8oz Magnum "Bruiser" in 76mm one.

That's odd. Broomsticks are fast and accurate for me. A 28 gauge kicks more than what, a 410, yes it does. Love everything about it, just miss the second barrel, a little!

SxS Only

Recoil is of course based on the payload, velocity & gun weight. If you propel 1 oz of shot @ 1200 fps it really does not matter what gauge it is fired from as far as the recoil is concerned. If you fire it from a 5 lb gun it will kick harder than if fired fired from a 6 lb gun. I fired some regular 3/4 oz loads from a 28 gauge single which weighed a couple of ounces over 4 lbs. It kicked harder than a 12 firing 3�-1 1/8 oz loads. Of course the 28 Carried a lot lighter. A 28 weighing around 5 to 5� lbs using 3/4 oz of shot is a nice handy little gun for many purposes. or me if I want more i'll take a bigger hole down the barrel.

To fire heavier loads "Just Because I Can" does nothing for me. When I visited Niagara Falls I "Could" have jumped in & gone over the falls but this held no attraction for me. Likewise Souping up a nice "Little" gun, thus having to make it heavier to handle the increased recoil hold no attraction for me. Others of course are free to do as they please. Just wanted to out in the Flip Side of the coin.

Whatever. To each his own. I shoot heavier guns like my 28 ga Red Label and 1100 better than my Legacy. You love your Ethos more power to ya.

As I posted earlier here in North America for the first three decades of the 20th Century the factory 28-gauge loads were 5/8 ounce whether put up in the 2 1/2 inch or 2 7/8 inch case.





Western Cartridge Co. introduced their Super-X, high velocity, progressive burning powder, 3/4 ounce 28-gauge load in early 1932.



Ithaca Gun Co. chambered their NID 28-gauge doubles, that reappeared in their 1932 catalogs, for this 2 7/8 inch shell,



as did Winchester when they introduced their Model 12 pump in 28-gauge in 1937. Just before WW-II our ammunition companies began offering a 3/4 ounce 28-gauge skeet load put up in a 2 3/4 inch case. Shortly after WW-II our ammunition companies did away with the 2 1/2 and 2 7/8 inch 28-gauge hulls and from then on all 28-gauge loads have been put up in 2 3/4 inch cases.

I certainly have no desire to persuade any other person on earth to try 3/4 oz. loads in a .410. We're just wired differently in that regard, Miller. Your reasoning is absolutely sensible, and I ascribe to it with my guns about 90% of the time. But, I just like to see what level of performance I can get any tool to reach. You probably wouldn't see the sense in trying to make an inline 6 cylinder run with a V-8, either. But, 30-40- years ago there was a subset of rodders who went to great lengths to see what they could make a 6 do. There were even companies selling products developed to help people do just that. No sense in us debating the "reasonableness" of 3/4 oz. loads in a .410, or of 1 oz. in a 28. There are those of us who, for our own reasons, just enjoy doing that.

As to recoil, I cannot see for the life of me how anyone would find a 3/4 oz. load of shot at 1100 fps unpleasant out of a 5 Lb.+ gun. Not referring to you, Miller, but this preoccupation with recoil is mind-blowing to me. Recoil is cumulative ............so all the experts say. I guess they know what they are talking about, but the whole subject is extremely subjective. I have gone through over 1000 rounds of 7/8 oz. loads in a 6 1/4 lb. doublegun in a day, for several days straight, with no issues. I'm no superman, either. I've seen men burn over 1000 rounds of 1 1/8 oz. loads in three hours with no recoil problems. It is just beyond the pale, to me, that a grown man is bothered by a few 3/4 to 1 oz. loads, while hunting or shooting clays, in anything over 5 lbs.

We're all different, and I appreciate other's perspectives when well stated ...............especially yours, Miller. I hope you and yours have a blessed Easter. "Sunday's coming."

All my best, SRH

Little guns are fun. Some big guns are fun too. Just not as much fun. I seek fun when shooting, like most of the small bore shooters in this thread. I don�t see or seek practicality in small bores. But then I don�t see or seek practicality in any sport shooting. Amarillo Mike captured that about as well as could be stated when he said something about tossing out rational thinking once you pass the fried chicken joint on the way out of town to go hunting.

Whether you shoot an eight bore or a .410, muzzleloader or auto, or analyze the recoil effect of 20 grains of �ejecta� I am pretty sure you are trying to have fun. Have more fun.

Stan, along the lines of your 6 cylinder story, in the 70s, my brother and ran a 122 c.i. 4 cylinder Pinto, turbocharged to over 30 psi. That small bore would leave many large bores in the dust.

There was a company in California about thirty years ago which sold nothing but parts to hop up inline 6 cyl. Chevys. their slogan was "6 = 8". I can't remember their name for the life of me.

Clifford Performance

http://www.cliffordperformance.net

Marc beat me.

Guess I'm just a little different but I never really let the size hole in the barrel determine the amount of Fun I was having. I shot for several seasons with a pre 1900 J P Clabrough 12 ga Damascus using 1 oz loads. This gun had 28" barrels with � choke in both barrels. I killed quail, rabbit & woodcock with this gun. I simply can't imagine any more fun than I had with that gun. I have just always believed in using a tool which I felt was best suited for the job at hand. I have just never had a desire for a 28 which weighed much over 5 lbs nor a .410 much over 4 lbs. If I am going to carry a gun weighing 6 lbs or more I simply don't want it to be smaller than a 20.

As to recoil I was never particularly recoil shy. I have shot a 6� lb 20 gauge with full factory 3" mags with 1� oz oz shot with no problem. Using the old 96:1 ratio of gun weight to shot charge 1 0z needs a 6 lb gun. thus 3/4 oz can be fired with comfort from a 4� lb gun but 1� oz of shot would need a 7� lb gun. I have exceed these on many occasions. The 3/4 oz load I mentioned shooting from a 4lb 2oz single did kick harder than a 3� DE-1 1/8 oz load but the 12 was a 7+ lb Parker Trojan which I was using at the time (probably close to 7� lb). The kick from the 28 did not bother me but was more than the 12 because of the weight difference. I had just put that in to point out that recoil is not Gauge specific but load VS gun weight specific. If you fire 1 oz of shot from a 6 lb gun at similar velocities it really doesn't matter what the gauge is its going to "Kick" about the same. A smaller hole is not going to automatically reduce kick.

I have no problem with anyone who uses a small gun within its limits, which I truly believe that both of you do. I guess I have just been somewhat prejudiced by so many who try to make out like they are some kind of "Super Sportsman" by taking a small bore out of its class & Bad Mouthing those of us who use a larger gauge. These seem to be the ones I have mostly encountered personally. I have always enjoyed the time I have had to go afield & while the most of my hunting did not call for heavy loads I didn't use them. I have fired many 1 oz loads from 20, 16 & 12 gauge guns. Heaviest I ever shot from a 28 was 3/4 oz & truly have no desire to use more from that size gun.

When loading black powder the old timers were pretty well limited by case capacity as to the max load they could use. I have a tendency to follow those loads for my own use. Thus if I am going to exceed 3/4 oz I want to go up to a twenty & if I "Need" 1� oz I truly prefer the 12 over magnamizing either a 20 or 16. Although I do not have one I think that 1� oz would be ideal for a Light 10. My only 10 is a 10 lb circa 1889 Lefever.

Taking 1� oz in a 12 then loads with similar shot column lengths in the various gauges are .410=3/8 oz, 28=.7 oz, 20=7/8 oz, 16=1+ oz, &
10=1 7/16- . While I realize all these loads have been exceeded with generally good results I find the smaller bore to be loaded heavier in relation to bore capacity than the larger ones. I like to keep the shot column short & find this to be generally speaking going in the wrong direction. I much prefer to load Down a larger gauge than to Load Up a small one.

Sort of like if I had 1,000 acres of crop to get planted I would much prefer a 200 HP tractor than a 20 HP one. If on the other hand I were only going to plant 10 acres I would prefer the 20 HP. As I said I like a match, to me the small gauges are for small game at short range. I simply do not feel the need to make 12 or 16 out of the 28 or .410 when the larger guns are much more readily available at more economical prices for both the guns & loads. As I said just presenting the "Flip" side of the coin.

Check out this 6
http://falconerengines.com/falconer_l6.php?l6=main

All very valid points, Miller. Well......... maybe a little bit of a stretch with the 200hp vs. 20 hp comparison. You cannot get 1000 acres planted on time with a 20 hp tractor, whereas the .410 will run down a dove and kill him just as fast as a 12. But, I know exactly what you meant ...........just funnin' a little.

Clifford Performance is the name. I remember it, now. Thanks Marc Ret.

That L6 is pretty, Chuck.

SRH

Nice chronology there! My 1940 Shooters Bible shows a mixture of all 3 lengths for the 28ga. Must've been about the time those new skeet loads appeared.

The first Shotgun I ever fired in my life was that little 4 lb 2 oz single 28 gauge I mentioned. I have no idea what length the shells were, the gun belonged to an Uncle (Married to my Mother's sister) & I simply used the shells he provided. Later when I became much more interested in Shotguns in the Mid Fifties all available (To Me) literature specified the Standard hull length of the 28 as being 2 7/8 inch. I guess some of them simply had not caught up with the change or perhaps the Field loaded Express/SuperX shells were still using the longer hull. I had not realized the change had come so early.

To each his own, but I've never understood why someone would want to shoot a 1 oz. load in a 28 ga. If you need 1 oz of shot, it performs much better in a 20, 16, or 12 gauge. Patterns with a 1 oz. load in a 28 gauge are not as efficient as the 3/4 oz. as pattern studies have proven. The recoil is staggering as well.

I have created my own "pattern studies" with all loads for the 28 gauge and found that the 1 oz load is much better, with even patterns and far less large holes with the 1oz (350 count of #7.5 shot) vs 3/4 oz (262 count of #7.5 shot). Not sure what you mean by "staggering recoil", but I would never use it when referring to the 28 gauge. When I test pattern all loads, I can't tell any difference in recoil, one from another. The difference is the pattern on paper. I have gone on barn yard pigeon hunts and have fired up to 4 1/2 boxes of 1 oz loads in just over an hour and the last thing I would remember would be recoil. If you think a 28 gauge is staggering, try shooting a couple dozen 3 1/2" turkey loads out of a 12 gauge on the patterning bench, and then maybe your term staggering may fit the feeling.

GaryW, it's the difference between practicality and performance. Some people are completely satisfied with what the engineers turn out for the masses. Those engineers are designing to a certain goal, which is seldom the highest level of performance from a product. Most people accept that the engineers did their job well, and accept that the status quo is satisfactory. Others are always asking .........."is this the best it can do?", and experiment to determine that. Neither one is wrong, and neither one is the only one that is right. It's just a difference in goals.

To use the well worn analogy of car engines again, most are satisfied with factory level performance. Some are always trying to squeeze more performance out of an engine. That is not wrong just because most don't understand why they do it. I'm not saying that you or Miller think "we" are wrong, but just like the people in Miller's past who acted somehow superior because they hotrodded a smallbore, so are there those who want to belittle others that dare to defy the olde, engraved in stone, gun "rules" that most of the world accepts as gospel. It's like we are committing heresy when we don't.

Heading out to help cook early breakfast for the Easter Sunrise service crowd.

Have a blessed day, SRH

Someone gave me 4-6 boxes of 1 oz loads several years ago. I still haven�t shot any of it. Maybe I will some day.

Just so everyone knows not opposed to large bore guns, my latest purchase is a 12ga Beretta 1301 Comp black plastic, 9 round mag, gas jackhammer. It would certainly be my choice for plowing.

I have a book written by Sir Joseph Nickerson, of Rothwell, Lincolnshire Wolds, England. He was one of the greatest game shots ever, surpassing many of Lord Ripon's record bags, and did so in modern times, dieing in 1990. He shot driven grouse and grey partridge on his estate, and partridge in Spain ...........even once shot quail with John Olin at Nilo Plantation here in S. GA. He used trios of O/U guns by Woodward, and then Purdeys. Late in life he shot a trio of Purdey 28 bores, to save weight as he waned in upper body strength. He stated that he usually averaged around 50% kills ratio with the 12s, and later the 20s, but when he went to the 28s his ratio on taking all shots in range increased to 1/1.8, or 56%. What's interesting about that? He shot 1 oz. loads in the 28 bores, finding them absolutely comfortable for a long day's driven shoots, even up into his early 70s in age.

Imagine that ...............going from 7 lb. 12 oz. 12 gauges to 5 1/2 lb. 28s shooting 1 oz. loads, and shooting the best in his life. If they kick that bad, how could a man in his seventies have done it?

SRH

Perception of recoil is highly subjective, as everyone knows. I never really notice recoil at all when I'm shooting at game.

Just as an fyi, Fiocchi makes their Golden Pheasant load in 3 inch, 1 1/16 oz, 28 gauge.

Yes, I bought 5 boxes of Fiocchi 3 inch #6 28 gauge loads with intent for turkey hunting this spring. Just haven't patterned them yet to see if just a 1/16 oz increase makes any difference in patterns compared to my Winchester 1oz loads.

SxS Only

There is an article in Shooting Sportsman this month by Tom Roster about 1 oz. 28 ga. loads.