doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Doug Woodin PA24 best barrel blacker in America

Doug was meticulous in everything related to rust bluing. From prep to the final product. If anything did not come up to his level of expectations he would go back and start again if need be. Also the number of cycles he was willing to do would put most people rust bluing to shame. And the final result showed his standards were not only very high indeed but that he could meet them.

The funny thing was that I think he was always looking for that last fraction of percentage to being perfect and even when he reduced it to a tiny fraction he never lost his desire to be rid of it completely. What we thought as perfection he saw as very good but still a challenge to do better. Even when it was impossible.

Not by any means wanting to disparage Doug's work, Beautiful it is.
However my personal preference for a field gun, which is what mine are/were, I actually prefer the matte/satin finish to a high shine. This does't mean it should be done just any old way, it still needs quality work done to make it look right. I am just not of the school where "Shiny" is the end all for every thing.

I used to go to a lot of antique tractor & engine shows. Many of them gave prizes to the "Best Restored" engines. The boys with the deep pockets who were having professionals paint their engines were winning all the prizes. They were taking them to body shops & having the castings all filled in & a shine put on you could shave in. The Real Engine men who did them original didn't have a chance. They got to complaining, said these engines were "Not Restored" not a one of them left the factories with anything other than a coat of paint directly on the castings, with all the pores showing. End result was they just quit having the "Contests". I believe that most of the older American Doubles did not have a high shine originally but had the matte finish.

I think keith referred to it earlier, Miller, that if there was a fault, it was that finishes were taken beyond what the factory might have done. I agree with you that some finishes are inappropriate. To me, I never really saw 'shiny'. What I admired was his ability to do meticulous work without losing lines and washing out contours.

I have just a few British guns, but I have noticed that the rust bluing (blacking) vary between my few examples;

Jos. Harkom 16 bore BLE (re-barreled by Hellis, Beesley and Watson in the late 50s, Birmingham proofs) These barrels are moderately polished and VERY black.

Dickson RA - Re-barreled by the makers in the 60's (Birmingham proofs) these barrels are highly polished with a deep, glossy plum colored blacking.

Henry Atkin SLE - made in 1930 and barrels original Vickers steel but refinished at least once. Very highly polished and very black glossy finish with faint plum highlights in sunlight.

Based on these descriptions, which of the finishes would be closest to original Brit standards?

To answer that question accurately, one would have to know what those barrels looked like when they left the maker or factory. Bluing oxidizes over time. Protective gun oils or waxes can dramatically slow down that oxidation by providing a barrier to atmospheric oxygen and moisture. I have a couple hot blued guns in near unfired condition that have receivers turning plum color due to their high nickel content. They are totally original, but do not have the same color they had when produced. Another thing to consider with British guns is the fact that so many of them were routinely returned for service and reblacking/refinishing, while Americans value original condition.

I totally agree with Miller on what constitutes an accurate restoration. Doug certainly knew that some of his refinishing projects went well beyond factory polish, but sometimes he desired that. He made the loading gate on that 1894 .38-55 a plum color for contrast, but knew it wasn't originally done that way. This question of accurate restorations goes way beyond the level of metal polishing to also include stock finishes that have every pore completely filled... something that wasn't the norm on most vintage doubles. Looking at pores and finish oxidation is one of the clues I rely on to know if a gun has been refinished. The Sterlingworth barrels I mentioned bluing with Doug's process was intentionally taken to a higher than factory level of polish, just to see if I could actually do it. Prior to that, none of my rust blue jobs would have spooked any game due to reflective glare, no matter what formulas or methods I tried. I was on the verge of trying some formulas from Angier's that contained the dreaded mercuric chloride, something that many of the best British barrel blackers used in the past.

What Miller said. I value working grade guns, but, nothing would turn me off faster than a London blacking job on the barrels of a NItro, Tobin, Trojan, or Sterlingworth.
I think that most R grade Darnes were out to 400 grit, or so, and the V grades might have went to 600, more if a customer requested it. The steel was XTC, a Fench tool steel on the order of 4140, but, higher in chrome, and tough to blue.
They had a nice, dark, black finish on the tubes in the era I was involved with it. I really liked it.
Our own Ken 61 did some very nice, factory level blue on my Nitro. He wanted to take it out further than 320. I told him absolutely not, and am beyond satisfied with the finish he did.


Best,
Ted

Anyone know how with rust bluing they get a beautiful blue rather than black? I own an English gun with a beautiful brilliant bluing on the barrels. Most that I own , however are black. I like the brilliant blue best.

Even the "blacks" I've seen/owned seem to me to be a really very dark shade of blue ..........almost black, but not quite. The only truly black set of barrels I own is on the little .410 Yildiz S x S, and it is a black chrome. Now, they are really blacked.

SRH

buzz, the very simple to make 1873 Ordnance formula found in Angier's gives more of a blue finish rather than black. But you have to be very careful to dilute it properly and keep the rusting cycles short to keep it from biting too much, or it will leave a very matte surface. It does get darker as you make more passes, but still remains more bluish color than a lot of formulas. The hardest ingredient to find is iron nails, but small pieces of wrought iron would work as well. You definitely want to mix it outside in a good crock or crucible, because it generates a lot of heat and nasty fumes when you add the nails to the concentrated acids.

I noticed that new Wingmaster with Light Contour barrel I used to own was pretty rust resistant as opposed to old Ithaca 37 and Remington 31. The finish on the new Wingmaster was dark and shiny. I suspect if you buy one of them new Turkish upland guns with real shinny barrels that Cabela's sells the oxidation problem will be greatly reduced. If you want more oxidation risistance on older guns look for those with barrels made of Poldihutte 'Anticorro' (Beretta SOs come to mind) or Boehler Bros. Antinit (better quality German, Austrian and other continental makers). If you like repeaters Winchester made some Model 12s with stainless steel barrels which resist rusting better than standard steel ones.