doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Strange Proof marks on a Saint-Etienne 16 ga.

I was looking at this 16 ga. SxS Fusil de Chasse on Naturabuy.fr... M. Serre has been discussed before and it looks like he was a well known gun maker in Saint Etienne in the 1930's. It looks like it's been rechambered from 65mm to 70 mm and reproofed. The Saint-etienne crossed palm fronds are recognizable. But does anyone know what is that second mark?

On the tubes or on the flats? Interlaced MS would be for M. Serre I assume. Do you refer to the monogram / trademark low on the flats?

Cheers,

Raimey
rse

Both...MS on the barrels must be M. Serre.thanks - I feel pretty dumb. Oh well., guess that's one down.. What about the mark on the flats?

The one low on the flats closely resembles the Lebeau Courally trademark of two interlaced Ls(side by side w/ one reversed) & a C surmounted by a crown. M. Serre must have had a similar touchmark but w/ a MS surmounted by a crown? Is that the best image?

Cheers,

Raimey
rse

You don't see a lot of French guns with reproof marks, but that's one. The R under a crown doesn't show up all that well, but it's there. Plus the 70 in addition to the 65.

Many thanks Mr. Brown for confirming that. I was going to inquire but since I didn't recall ever seeing one, thought it to be a dumb question.

Cheers,

Raimey
rse

Raimey, that's the best photo of the mark on the barrel flats available; somehow most sellers on Naturabuy can't take a decent photo. But while we're whiling away the dog days of non-hunting season, here are two more Saint Etienne guns rechamsbered from 65 to 70:






And here is an 1890's Manufrance 16 gauge chambered for 7.5 cm again making me wish there were some publication out there on French shotgun shells from that era:
https://www.naturabuy.fr/cal-16-75-remis...em-3143203.html

Those first two don't show reproof marks even though the chambers have been lengthened. At least not that I can see.

I've seen Brit guns that have been reproofed without showing the reproof mark (also crown over R). But it most cases with those guns, it's somewhat academic. They've changed proofmarks often enough that if the originals listed only chamber length and shot charge while the new ones refer to tons or bars, then reproof is obvious due to the 2nd set of marks.

And while we're at it...this is from a St Etienne Damascus barreled hammer gun 16 gauge...no photos of barrels flats, etc. but what powder is this proofed for? Can't make it out. PVI? PM?



And this one. Manufrance Damascus barrels - chambered in mm 75 - 14 gauge (it's marked 17.4 - a little larger than 16 gauge - but the sellers states that 14 ga shells fit the chamber - he has 30 of them.) Has to be between 1885 and 1889. But what is the "F" proof mark?



And final question: 16 gauge Saint-Etienne top lever hammer gun with poor photos...but it's proofed for what? PS is obvious...but again PM? PI? PVI?

The Crown over F is either a tubemaker's mark or a mechanic's quality control stamp. I can't recall the Poudre M but I have seen it prior. Maybe it was a variant @
"Laboratoire Central des Poudres et Salp�tres" in Paris, France??

Cheers,

Raimey
rse