doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Tobin Regal Grade

Well, look what's just surfaced. Looks like a reasonably high condition Tobin Regal grade. Don't know the numbers but I've only heard of one or two others. This will be going up for sale in the near future. Some good gun guy is trying to help a little old lady receive proper value. I have zero connection to this gun. Just an interested bystander.

Sorry, don't know how to make the pics appear here.

https://i.imgur.com/V3sF9Wk.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/BGDC7Ze.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/yJCC7Kb.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/jU3xw7J.jpg

What a beautiful gun! Bobby

For canvasback
To show your pictures in front of each string put an [img]
and at the rear of each string put an [/img]
no spaces, good luck,
Mike

Looks svelte from the top view. Very pretty gun.

Thank you very much Mike. I need to remember that as you do it for so many people, I hate to add to your work load!

Canvasback.
I wonder if this gun is the one that I have been trying to track down for the best part of 40 years/[I have lived in the Woodstock area for 50 years.]
A colleague of mine that negotiated the purchase of Eureka Foundry[Owners of Tobin at one time]told me of such a gun that he was shown during negotiations. At one time I thought that gun may have ended up in the collection of G Crandall, the Woodstock, gunsmith a former Tobin Employee. Despite repeated efforts Iwas never ever able to track down this gun.
I did own for many years the Tobin Duck gun seen in the collection donated by Jim Stewart to the National archives.

Perhaps it is Roy, but it is currently residing on the Left Coast. As soon as I can get more information, I will make it available.

Thanks for sharing the pics, James! I've been aware of Tobin for awhile but can't recall seeing any of their guns near this level of refinement. Just gorgeous! Can anyone share info about the sidelock design and general track record of these guns in terms of durability and reliability?

BW

Bill you just put your finger on their greatest weakness. The design takes a lot of meat out of the receiver. Don't know I'd be happy shooting one a ton with modern loads. Not even with reduced loads for that matter. Not saying they are unsafe but I have others that are stronger actions and there is no need to risk damage to a high grade Tobin in any event.

That example is about as nice a one as you will ever come across. That is a fairly late example. They moved up north and continued to be made for a lot longer than many realize. Still that God awful White Line Recoil pad needs to go.

They are not a sidelock. The hammer and mainspring are in the frame, while the sear and sear spring are mounted on the side plate.

My Tobin articles were published in Volume Five, Issue 1, and Volume Eight, Issue 1, of The Double Gun Journal; Volume 39, Number 12, May 1994 of The Gun Report; and Volume 34, Number 3 of (the Canadian Journal of) Arms Collecting. Jim Stewart's article on his collection of Canadian Tobins was published in Canadian Antiques & Vintage May-June 2016, and was more recently updated in Hunting & Fishing Collectibles -- http://hfcollectibles.com/tobin-shotguns/

I have an old book titled Guns, Ammunition & Tackle, by A.W. Money and others, published in 1904. This book was a gift from Alcott Farrar Elwell to his twin brother Stanley Bruce Elwell in Summer 1907. They were the sons of noted sculptor F.E. Elwell -- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francis_Edwin_Elwell
Pasted in the book is a table of S. Bruce Elwells shotguns. He liked his Remington Model 1900 12-gauge, thought his Parker Bros DHE 12-gauge was a handsome gun but "too complicated", and really liked his Lefever FE-Grade 28-inch barrel 16-gauge "Wonderful little gun, fine simple action - good hang - strong, hard hitter." He also had a Tobin No. 40 Ejector 16-gauge with 28-inch barrels which weighed the same 6 pounds 6 ounces and had the same stock dimensions as the Lefever. Of the Tobin he wrote in the remarks section -- "very poorly made - cheap in every way. Tobin Co., no good!"

OK, what is the verdict per Dave Noreen?

I agree wholeheartedly with Elwell's assessment of the Lefever.
I have never had even a slight desire to own a Tobin, not even one dolled up like this one. As the old saying goes you Can't Make a Silk Purse out of a Sow's Ear. As far as I am concerned underneath all that chiseling there still lies a Sow's Ear.

I don't know that I would call a Tobin a sow's ear. But, in my experience it is a design with a few limitations, none of which existed when it came on the scene.

Much metal is removed from the frame to make for the neither boxlock nor sidelock Tobin design, metal that the gun can ill afford to lose. This was most likely not an issue at the time the Tobin patent was issued, and smokeless powder loads, with higher pressure, were still over the horizon. If a Tobin had been whittled from a block of 4140 chromoly, that was then properly hardened, I also suspect one would never have a problem with one.

But, they weren't.

I have no problem with how they look, or handle, or shoot. The rollers built into the hammers, the separate, easily servicable strikers, and the springs with rollers, that do double duty as cocking rods, is a clever design. If you keep the pressure down on the loads you feed it, you can expect about the same service most other guns would give.
As the 20s began to roar, I'm guessing most Tobins had been handed down to younger shooters or served as backup guns to repeaters, and they saw more hard use, less care, and some abuse. Most lower grade double guns were not considered more than tools in that era. It isn't hard to find one in poor shape. In most cases, that isn't a guns fault.
I enjoyed all of mine, but, prefer guns that can be fed a bit more easily from the bargain table, if need be. At this time, I'm not interested in owning any of the guns that S. Bruce Ewell did in his era, for that simple reason.

Best,
Ted

Ted makes an excellent point. Clarence Wollam's patent was issued in 1893
https://patents.google.com/patent/US498043A/en

By the time Tobin production started in 1904 Smokeless Powder was in general use.

I haven't shot any of my Tobins enough to note any issues. Those old 3 1/2 drams of bulk smokeless powder or 28-grains of Infallible or Ballisite dense smokeless powder pushing 1 1/4 ounce of shot 12-gauge loads available when the Tobins were being built were plenty hot!!

G.B. Crandall offered 12-gauge 3-inch guns on the Tobin action in the twenties and thirties.

It would be nice to see one of those Crandall 3" Tobins, to see if he altered the frame at all, or just added 3" chambers and called it good. I've seen plenty of lever way left Tobins, and have seen more than one with a bent frame.

I owned a 40 grade, 12 gauge, serial number 700, that a friend suggested I bore the tubes out to 10 gauge, and rifle one of them to open the choke. It weighed about 9 pounds.
I never got the gun shooting, I was still replacing parts and wood on it when someone asked to buy it for the barrels.

I have a hunting partner that still owns the black finish Tobin 12 I sold him, that I got from John Mann, and he uses it to great effect with 2 1/2 Vintagers, on pheasants. It required a shim on the hook, done by Mike Orlen, and I know for fact it is his favorite double.
Sometimes an old gun speaks to you. I have a Nitro 16 that gives me a good chuckle when everything goes right and we, the dog and I, get a bird with it.


Best,
Ted

Gun has been sold. Didn�t get publicly sold. My suspicion is that someone gave the older lady a cash offer and took advantage of her lack of knowledge of guns. Just my suspicion.