doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Francotte or NOT?

So I took a gamble on a Belgian double. It was low priced ($350) and the pictures were poor. I noticed three very intriguing things about it from the pictures however:

1. I could see a screw on the front trigger, which told me it was articulated.
2. It appeared to be a sidelock vs a sideplated gun.
3. The engraving was a pattern which looked very much like something that came from Francotte.

I haven't yet picked up the gun from the FFL, however I did stop by and have a look at it today. I did not see A. Francotte or the crowned AF trademark anywhere on the gun. However, I did confirm the trigger was articulated, the gun has ejectors, it is marked 12-70 so a post 1924 gun with 2.75" chambers, and the wood is fantastic.

Anyways, since I don't have it in hand yet, I can't provide full pictures, but I did snap a few pictures of the barrel flats for everyone to look at and discuss observations, ideas, theories about the gun, etc. Here are the pics and one from the dealer, and here is the gun I've been using to compare it with: http://www.gunsinternational.com/guns-fo...un_id=100932731

Oh also, the one barrel is marked "Verb Cyl". It's certainly an open choked gun by looking at the muzzle, but does anyone have any idea what the "verb" would be?

Hi Fall'jaeger
You got this for $350? shoot seems too good nearly
In the fourth picture down on the right chamber area...what is that mark above the elg oval ...from here it first
looked like an upper case F next to an upper case upside down A---those being under some class of lion?
After lots of looking i believe it might be PV, or FV under some class of a lion.....mebbe?
Would you post the serial? 7 is that like a m for the year code...lost my chart ...can any one date it from that odd looking side ways m?
Any makers with those initials come to mind?
Gun looks sweet, hope it checks out good mate cheers
franc

Nah, not a Francotte. Interesting serialized Siemens Martin Steel tubeset. For now, not a clue on "VERB - CYL".

Cheers,

Raimey
rse

Not from what I can see.

Definitely a quality gun when it was made, and depending on the condition of the barrels and the gun�s mechanics maybe a good buy.

M would be for 1934 or could be the inspector�s mark

The lettre annale is 1934

Is that 'JT' in an oval on the right barrel?
It could be Joseph Thonon
http://www.littlegun.be/arme%20belge/artisans%20identifies%20t%20w/a%20thonon%20famille%20gb.htm

Thank you gentlemen. I noticed that the gun in the GunsInternational.com ad also has the JT in a circle mark similar to this one. Each of the tubes is marked with a crowned K. For now, these are all the pictures I have until I pick up the gun.

The bad news is the stock was cut for a recoil pad and the outside of the barrels have some slight surface rust that I hope will clean up. However, the bores are clean and the gun seemed tight - although in need of a very good cleaning.

Chokes are excellent for a close rising upland gun at 0.1 and 0.2 mm.
Measurement would confirm, of course.
At the price paid there is some room for reconditioning, if the gun is fundamentally sound.
Good luck with it.

for 350 ya cant go wrong.....unless you remortgage the house trying to spruce it up.....

For the most part, is the underside of the right tube/flat devoid of touchmarks less the encircled ELG w/ a star below, all surmounted by a crown? Or are the other marks in shadow?


Cheers,

Raimey
rse

Raimey, my opinion about what Verb-Cyl can be is that is it in German language "Verbessert" or improuved cylinder. Of course this is a guess but there are more German speaking members and maybe they have an other opinion.
Marc.