Not for older guns with tight chokes, but I shot the pheasant opener with the new Black Cloud in 20 ga with 1oz of #3, IC choke. Very impressed with its ability to knock down every bird I hit, but left a lot of runners. Buddy was shooting 12 ga Bismuth #5, same result, lots of runners. The requirement to shoot nontox for upland game seems to have significantly increased the number of cripples, just like the early steel on ducks. Other observations?