doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Rainy Day Sarasqueta - Pictorial

This gun was sold by El Trust Eibarres. Near as I can tell its a V. Sarasqueta. 70mm chambers, 30" pipes, extractors, it was originally choked mod and full but I had my local 'smith open up the right barrel to skeet 1. It locks up tight, has chopper lump barrels, bushed strikers and side clips. Oh! And the animal engravings are not AS cartoonish as some I have seen. Even though I didn't have a chance to shoot it at clays or pattern it prior, I decided to take it out for the pheasant opener in PA. Two birds flushed out at 25 yards, one right one left. Two barrels, two birds and my first double shot. Its not very pretty, but at 6.8 lbs it was a joy to carry.

Some Victor Sarasqueta's on Natureabuy.Fr.

http://www.naturabuy.fr/Fusils-Juxtaposes-Sarasqueta-critere-33397.html

The following from this French site: https://www.facebook.com/pg/BEST-GUNS-MA...375348629163010

VICTOR SARASQUETA La firme de Victor Sarasqueta a �t� fond�e en 1883, le fondateur consid�r� comme le p�re de l�armurerie fine espagnole �tait ,non seulement un armurier comp�tent, mais �galement un novateur et un industriel talentueux, �a devise, le principe selon lequel Victor Sarasqueta a v�cu �tait : � Quoi que vous fassiez faites le bien. Ce qui est fait bien est plus difficile, mais tout le monde le veut. Faire du mauvais c�est plus facile, mais personne n'en veut. � La soci�t� a rapidement grandi pour devenir la compagnie de fabrication d'armes dominante � Eibar. A son apog�e, l'entreprise employait 125 personnes, en 1902 Sarasqueta a �t� nomm� fournisseur de la maison royale d'Espagne. Tout au long de son histoire, l'entreprise a principalement fabriqu� une vari�t� de fusils de chasse de bonne qualit�, dans le style britannique, � platine ou A&D Les ann�es 1970 et 80 ont vu un important ralentissement de l'activit� pour les fabricants d'armes espagnoles. Pendant ce temps, Victor Sarasqueta, SA a �t� r�organis� et la raison social devient � Victor Sarasqueta Rifles y Escopetas Especiales, SA � .Un certain nombre de mod�les ont �t� abandonn�es et la gamme de production a �t� r�duite � deux mod�les A&D et trois mod�les � platines .Dans le milieu des ann�es 1980, l'entreprise fait partie du groupe Diarm qui a tent� de regrouper plusieurs entreprises de fabrication d'armes espagnol en une seule soci�t�. Le cabinet Diarm a ferm� ces portes a la fin des ann�es 1980 mettant fin � un chapitre de fabrication d'armes espagnoles.
-------------------------(not a good translation of the above)--------------------------------------
- Victor Sarasqueta Victor Sarasqueta was a firm of gun makers based in Eibar, Spain. It mostly produced side-by-side shotguns based on British designs. The business was founded in 1883 and in 1902 received a Royal Warrant as a purveyor of guns to the King of Spain. After being reorganised as Victor Sarasqueta Rifles y Escopetas Especiales, S.A., the business became part of the DiArm Group in the mid 1980s, a company which did not survive that decade.

My own half-baked translation which at least is better than the above:

The firm of Victor Sarasqueta was founded in 1883, the founder considered as the father of fine Spanish gun makers was not only a competent gun maker but equally an innovator and an industrial talent. He created the guiding principal which Victor Sarasqueta advocated: "That which you make, make well. That which is well made is the most difficult but the whole world will know about it; To make something badly is easier, but no-one will want it." The company rapidly grew to become the dominant company for the fabrication of guns in Elbar. At its apogee, the enterprise employed 125 persons. In 1902 Sarasqueta was named furnisher of arms for the Royal house of Spain. Throughout its history the enterprise mainly made a variety of shotguns of good quality in the British style, with sidelocks or "A&D" (boxlocks?). The 1970's and 80's saw an important slowing down of activity for Spanish gun makers. During this time Victor Sarasqueta SA was reorganized and the Society became "Victor Sarasqueta Rifles and Shotguns SA." A certain number of models were discontinued and the production was reduced to two sidelock models. In the middle of the 1980's, the enterprise became part of the Diarm group wich tried to combine several Spanish gun makers into one company. Diarm closed its doors at the end of the 1980's putting an end to a chapter of Spanish arms making.

Great reading, especially the trademarks

http://www.shotguns.se/html/spain.html

http://www.shotguns.se/html/spanish_trademarks.html

That's where my V. Sarasqueta hypothesis came from...

The serial on the water table begins with AM and there is a V.S mark on the barrels...

wonderful foto graphy...

Great prices on severely underrated guns. You did well.

Interesting lock up on that Spaniard with its rib extension and cross bolt. The vast majority of Spaniards I've seen only have the Purdey double underbite.

The A.M. prior to the serial number is definitely Victor Sarasqueta. I can't narrow down the date of manufacturer with just the proof marks though. I don't see a date code stamp in your pictures either.

You would think that date stamp would be on the action flats but I don't see anything.

Most of the 250 dollar spanish guns have the double under bite but very few have more than one of these properly fit.

bill

I had an Italian made Richland Arms model 707 3" 20 gauge (My son has it now) which had what appears to be an identical concealed cross bolt. A smoke test revealed it had no contact at all thus was essentially useless. It had rather heavy double underlugs, Amply thick bolts & sidewalls in the frame. It carried the heaviest Italian Proof of the day which as I recall was listed as Superior Proof. The hunting I was doing at the time I used it mainly with standard 2 1/2 DE-1oz loads. However I felt no qualms at all about firing the heaviest 3" loads available. I think I bought one box of them just to try out but really had no use for them. I was occasionally doing a it of squirrel hunting at the time which didn't allow rifles so loaded the empties with 1 1/8 oz of #5's at about 1150 fps. These proved quite effective especially on the occasional Fox Squirrel I would run into. Bought this gun from Hester's Inc just barely prior to the 68 GCA shutting down the mail order business. Paid $135.00 for it when most places were listing it @ $179.95. Ordered it with 28" barrels (My favorite length) M/F & opened the right barrel to I/C. Weight was 6 1/4 lbs. For my use it proved to be a very useful & versatile gun. When you touched off one of those full loaded 3" maggies though you definitely knew when it went off. The milder reload was quite comfortable.
Miller/TN

Treblig I cannot find it either. I have searched all over the gun.

After hunting season is over, I suppose I should strip the polyurethane, which the previous owner slopped all over the stock and receiver and give it a proper coat of oil.

After that left, right combo on pheasants, that Spaniard is a keeper!!!

That's a lot of gun there, she'll look even better after some TLC.

"Pretty is as pretty does"--and that one done pretty good!

This is a relatively old gun, from a time when the data we usually would expect to find on the barrel flats is on the barrel tubes. Here is the proof year code (red box added):

Purely FYI, Victor Sarasqueta did not found his company in 1883. It was Victor�s older brother, J.J. (Juan Jose) Sarasqueta that founded the gun making company in 1883. Victor went to work for his brother, J.J., circa 1887 serving a seven year apprenticeship at the shop of J.J. Sarasqueta.

Victor successfully completed that apprenticeship in 1895, and went on to found a company in 1899 in partnership with Francisco Cortaberria and Jose Urizar. This partnership lasted several years before breaking up, at which time Victor Sarasqueta opened his own company as sole proprietor.

Well, if it isn't Kyrie the master of the magical disappearing act.

All is well if he disappeared to finish his book on Spanish shotguns that a lot of us have been hoping to see for years now.

Thank you Kyrie, I had wondered about that mark. Everything I read however, pointed to date codes on the flats or water table.

So we're talking 1933?

Hello Fallschirmjaeger,

Congratulation on your acquisition � that�s one fine box lock.

1933 would be my guess. If the year proof code isn�t �F� it would have to be F1 (1960) or F2 (1986).

We can exclude F2 as Victor Sarasqueta went out of business before 1986. The code F1 wouldn�t be unreasonable, but would be stretching a bit as Greener (and Scott) cross bolts had almost completely fallen out of use by 1960.

But I�m reluctant to accept F1 as there just isn�t any sign of any number after the �F� proof year code.

Also there is this:

I�ve gone through some old Sarasqueta catalogs and have found a model in an undated (but likely 1930 � 1940) catalog that pictures a model similar to yours (described in the catalog as a model 97).

We need to consider Trust Eibarres, as that was the retailer under whose name the gun was retailed. Looking through a 1930 � 1933 Trust Eibarres catalog I found a gun that is nearly identical to yours (a model 154), except that illustration shows a Scott cross bolt rather than a Greener cross bolt.

All things considered, my opinion would be a year code of F and a proof year of 1933.

With that in mind I went back through your photos and think I can see signs of considerable use, and that someone who knew what he was doing has had the action apart at some point (suggesting repair). So, in spite of the absolutely stunning cosmetic condition of the gun, I can believe it was made circa 1933 and has seen use consistent with that age.

Turning to Trust Eibarries (TE), TE was (and still is) a major ammunition manufacturer in Spain. From the very early 1900 up into the 1960s TE was also a retailer of shotguns made by a host of Spanish gun makers. TE sponsored shooting matches and was a heavy supporter of live pigeon matches. I�ve owned a couple or three TE guns, and had more pass through my hands, and can say from experience you can find just about any maker sold under the TE label

Concerning the location of proof and manufacturing data, we have three periods (call them �eras�) during which proof/manufacturing data was found in some specific place. Most recently (beginning about 1995) proof year was moved from the barrel flats to the water table (and the year code was abandoned).

From about 1929 into the 1940s the proof year code, barrel weight, and maker mark were placed on the barrel tubes, in front of the barrel flats. That�s the case with your gun (which has the Victor Sarasqueta maker�s mark �V.S.� on the left barrel tube.

Beginning in the late 1930s the makers began to move these marks from the barrel tubes on to the water table. This was something of a slow process, with quite a bit of randomness in where what mark went on any gun by any maker at any point in time. But by circa 1950 the move was pretty much complete. This practice lasted until the mid-1990s, which is why we are so accustomed to looking on the barrel flats.

So what you have isn�t just a very fine shotgun; it�s also a walk through the history of Spanish shotgun making and an introduction to some of the major players :-)

Kyrie,

Again, thank you for the outstanding explanation/description. I also have suspicions that the gun has been opened up. My suspicions fall more to the butt stock being a replacement. The checkering appears to be different between the PoW grip and the forend. I assume this gun was imported from Sweden and the appearance of the checkering on the grip has a very Swedish gunsmith style. Similar to that on some of my Husqvarna rifles. The wood also stands quite proud to the receiver.

Whatever the reason the action was opened up, it seems to function well, the wood is tight, and the gun balances extremely well even with the 30" barrels.

Miller, I too had one of those Richland 20ga magnums. Mine came with 30" tubes. Bought it for my son, had the barrels shortened to remove choke. (Wouldn't do that if I owned the gun today.) I think Francis Sell's articles--he was touting the 3" 20 heavily back then--may have had something to do with those guns being imported. Like the OP's Spaniard, they represented very good value for the money.