doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Pre WWI Saint Etienne 12 ga with lots of case colo

Ted, that is an excellent erudite explanation of the epoch ..I'm just genetically bound to look into this case color story more. I've never been enamored with case colors...I really like the silver on the Wm Evans my wife owns.

But I didn't buy this gun. partly because it suddenly had a reserve put on it. Here's what I sent to the seller. Hope it'll help the guy sell a gun which has been on the market for 10 years.

"Michael, I bid on your gun but you had the reserve set too high for me.� I actually don't really need another shotgun... But at least I'll identify the gun for you which might help it sell.
-- It is an "Artisanal French Saint Etienne gun" (meaning the gun maker (arquabusier) is not known - typical of the Saint Etienne area)
-- It is "normal proof" (one stamp) (14,223 PKI - stamped from 1896 - 1923)
-- 18.4 is 12 gauge
-- The chamber length stamped on the flats is 6,5 cm...i.e. 2 1/2".� If it now has 2 3/4" chambers, it's been lengthened without being reproofed - fairly common in French guns in America but this can be a worry/sticking point for some.� French barrels though are usually pretty stout.
-- It is proofed for T powder (crown over PT) - the first really smokeless powder in France which came out in 1900
-- Given the PT and the 6.5 mark - the gun was made between 1900 and 1912.
-- "Acier Comprime" is simply "compressed steel," an invented term which is a sort of an advertisement for the steel in the barrel.
-- "Choke Rectifie Perfectione' is just "Perfected Regulated Choke" which really means nothing.
-- "Special pour Pyroxylee" - is another advertisement "Specially for Pyroxylide powder" - i.e. Smokeless.
-- The letters "G.H." in a circle may be the barrel maker - can't identify it.
-- the letters B.A. may be the maker who put the gun together and the 3603 is his serial number series. There were 150 shotgun makers in Saint Etienne at the time. (there is a Boyer A. 62 Rue du 11 Novembre Saint-Etienne - nothing more than this and this info is from post WWII).
-- "Qualite Supre" is "Super quality" - means nothing
-- "En Lingot" - "In Ingot" implying the barrel was made "from an Ingot"
-- The number 50 may be the barrel maker's serial number.
-- I'm not a case color expert but a friend who knows the topic thinks the case coloring might be modern cyanide process redo.�

Anyway, hope you find a buyer for it - French guns are not well known here and it may be hard sale.� My wife is from the Saint Etienne area which explains my interest in the subject. By the way I noticed it was sold twice on Paulin in 2009 for $529 and again in 2010 for $351.� The ads then were identical to your ad now.� Good luck and I hope this was helpful."

Ted,

Very interesting comment you made about seeing case colors removed underneath a chipped off piece of lacquer. Having read Dr. Gaddy's articles many times I thought I had an understanding that the colors we see are actually caused by the irregular microscopic surface structures in the steel itself, causing something similar to a prismatic effect, thus yielding the colors.

I learned years ago that, in absence of lacquer coating, a light coat of any oil will enhance the brilliance of the colors ......... kinda making them "pop". I have never applied a coat of clear lacquer to a color case hardened part, so I cannot answer what I am about to ask. Maybe you, or someone else here can address it. The question is, does the application of lacquer cause the colors to "pop", as does oil? And, if so, could it's removal, as in a chip coming off, reverse that "pop" so that it looked like the colors came off with the chip?

With what I thought I understood about case colors it is hard for me to understand how a flake of old lacquer coming off could change the surface structure enough to "remove" the color(s). Not saying it didn't lessen the appearance of the colors where the chip came off, just questioning how and why?

Thanks, SRH

Stan,
I have never seen what I described as "chipped colors" on anything save Darne R10s with cyanide colors.
The cyanide process is different than the bone pack process, and while both harden the surface of the steel, that is about all the similarity between them.
Putting a thin coat of clear lacquer on case colors does exactly what you say a coat of oil does. But, as the engineers say, there is no free lunch:

http://www.gunsinternational.com/guns-fo...un_id=100911839

Lacquer that has seen some time and use, ends up looking like this. Two of my Darnes have been recoated, one with the baking lacquer that Brownell's sells, or, used to sell, I only bought it once. But, that product is quite tough. The nice thing about a rattle can job over the colors is you will have case colors to look at for years to come, and 15 minutes in a pan of lacquer thinner will clean it all off. I've used the Krylon Crystal Clear you see in art stores for this task.

Don't be tempted to put it on thick. It looks better, thin.

Of coarse, you still get wear on the edges with a coated gun that sees heavy use, but, it is better than the colors fading away completely IMHO. I like crisp appearing colors with a bit of edge wear better, than, say, 10-25% colors remaining.

Best,
Ted