doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Fake "collectables" for shooting.

Every thought about how silly some of us view the myriad of guns made to be "collectible" instead of shot and how many people fall for the trap? If you make a new gun and add a little extra half axx moderate machine engraving, then add a serial number to say it is one of five hundred or even fifty is it really collectible? To me this is like all those Franklin Mint coins or plates which are just a fake collectible item that will never gain in value. Or the Ruger Red Label with a little simple engraving claiming to be one of fifty special edition guns. Come on they are still a Red Label at heart.

Been looking for a Winchester 42 .410 for early dove season and preserve birds. Found one that suits my needs. It is a "fake collectible" in my book that has seen very light use. Glad it has been shot because it is neither a rare Winchester 42 or a unfired, nib gun. It is one of the 42's that Winchester had made for them in Japan. But I was thinking that since it is not a real collectible I'd would shoot it anyways than let it sit in my gun room gathering dust for the next sucker looking for a wannabe collectible gun. Then you have the Browning labeled Japanese made copies of the Winchester model 12 and 42 in the Citori grade VI which Winchester never made with fake looking Gold inlays. That's a double or triple fake collectible in my book. A Japanese copy of a American gun with stuff added to it which never came on the original to start with. Like a Chinese made, 56 Chevy repro with a turbo charged 4 cylinder motor and neon light under the frame. Yum what a collectible car that would be.

It's gotta have a pix of John Wayne.

Some people like that stuff.
You don't.
NBD

I would buy a Chinese repro '56 Chevrolet if it was medium fast and medium cheap.

NIB = Now It's Bob's
I shoot everything!!

Ducks Unlimited annual dinner guns immediately come to mind at the mention of fake collectibles. They're pretty though and shoot just fine. I don't think they bring any premium to speak of upon sale. Anything produced for the purpose of being collectible, isn't...Geo

I've owned the Browning versions of the 42 and Model 12. In fact I believe it was McIntosh who wrote about all the Best guns he had seen and he added the Browning Model 12 in the list even though it was not a double just because he felt it was just made so good.
I sold mine and ended up with a pre - war 42 with a 26" barrel.
Shot doves with mine, it works great with the full choke.
I also had it restored so it is not a collectable so much now.
Love those 42's

I don't think any of us would live long enough for one of the fake collectable guns to gain any significant value. I think if you put a plain new one of the same basic model "under the bed" with the fake, for the same amount of time, it would bring as much, or maybe more than the fake. BTY, I wouldn't want a Chinese 56 Chevy; a 57 now, that would be something to hope for.
Mike

Anything with the word "Classic" in it's description, isn't.

Anything with the word "Collectable" in it's name, ain't.

NOTHING that has been made in China, since the Ming dynasty, is now or will ever be "collectable".

There are fewer people EVERY DAY who want a real 55, 56, or 57 Chevy, that was actually made by GM, who the hell would want a Chinese copy?

I bought a few NIB, unfired, guns over the years. I never bought them because they were unfired, that was simply how I found them. I usually started firing them at a pattern board, then shot clays or hunted them.

They aren't unfired, now.


Best,
Ted

57 you say. I had a fellow working for me who had one. 57 Belair Coupe, 283 fuel injected, black and white colors, one owner. He bought it while working for a local chevy dealer. It was one hot car in its days. Everyone who saw it had to stop and talk about it. If he did not like you he would not pop the hood or show you it had fuel injectors. Few ever learned that it did. Most never knew you could get fuel injector on a 283 in 57 in any chevy. God knows how many people tried to buy it from him.

Poor fellow ended up with Alzheimer's and spent his last year in a nursing home. Don't know who bought his car but I doubt they knew he had an extra fuel injected motor for it over his garage. They might have found it when they were cleaning out his parts collection. He was a bit of a pack rat. By the end he could not know what he had.

Heck of a nice guy. He did odd jobs for me on the farms. His nerves were shot from WWII. He carried a flame thrower, which he truley hated. Had to get up close and personal which he said was bad enough. He said when you lit it off every person in the other side would start shooting at you because they figured they could be next and everyone hated those flames. Nasty way to die.

Not shotguns but the winchester centennials, commemoratives and the boxes command a very good price in my part of the world. A box without the gun is around $500 and the gun unfired without box is $1000 - $1500 depending on which centennial or commemorative and caliber and a few go over $2000.

Hmm. You didn't happen to notice if the car had 6 lug wheels, did you?


http://www.57chevyblackwidow.com/facts.html

I've seen a few of these. Not cheap.


Best,
Ted

They make better: cars, motorcycles, electronics, mass-produced knives,.....and not surprisingly better mass produced guns. Buy Japanese guns and use with confidence they don't break or wear out easily. If members of each race used their brains to full potential I suspect Asians would come on top.

Ted, I just spent half an hour going over old photographs from that time and can not find one of Vick or his car. Sad. I thought a lot of Vick and all that he endured. That car would have been bought on the Eastern Shore of Maryland, so I suspect a Detroit origin, which may have been a six lug wheel, but who knows. Old Mr. Vick grew up very poor, only child, whose parents died when he was young, before the war, had a hard life for the most part, married after the war and had no children and only ever bought that one car brand new he told me. Since he would have been over 40 by then, it must have been like making it big to him. He was very proud of that car and it truly could fly. Heck, the owner of the nursing home might have bought it for $500, it being "just" a old car.

He was the first man I every knew who had served in the Italian campaign with General Clark and then later in the Pacific. Both times stuck carrying that flame thrower. In July '44 he was wounded, bad burns wouldn't you know it and returned to the States. Just before Christmas he got loaded up on a train, then a boat and sent to the Pacific. He figured a week later and they would have sent him back to Europe and right into the Battle of the Bulge. Until the hit the Pacific war he though he had dodge a bullet. Flame throwers got a lot of use on the islands. I thought he was kidding me when he first told me he had been in both Europe and the Pacific wars but he was not. Sometimes bad luck is just being available, when needs drive the Devil. They were scraping up replacements and he was there for them to ship out, the next month they were scraping up bodies to plug into the cannon fodder of the Bulge. He still hated both the Germans and the Japaneses when I knew him.

Another indication of the 'collectable ' prices in Canada.

https://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php/1572077-Ruger-Red-Label-Ducks-Unlimited-12g

Our 42 repro fake collectible came with Briley CTs. The install would set me back $250 + shipping today. Condition better than 98% and paid $600.

We use it for subgauge and, sometimes, fluff 12 events. Think I can score a bit better with .410 tubes in a P-stick, but not certain. The 42 is more fun, sure.

VR 42s make nice range guns, but prefer round bbl originals for grouse/WC.

Collectibles don't have to be old or even valuable to be collected by some group, mostly people who have some sense of order and enjoy collecting with like people. Pez, third generation Colts, stamps, matchbook covers, baseball cards, basketball shoes, etc. , are all collectibles to someone. The list is endless, and some prices astronomical. Our gun collections may not be worth much to a shoe collector.

Some guys collect ex-wives.

That's a very expensive collectible. One was enough for me.

From watching what happened to my friends, I decided that it is cheaper to keep the same old woman I've had all these years. Next month it will be 52 years + 5 dating.
Mike

Standard original Winchester field gun in good shape costs about $1500 or more (have seen one for $1200 not long ago but that sold quickly) . Personally I do not know what people see in those and I have no desire to ever own one. I much prefer self-loding gun where I can focus on shooting w/o moving my arm.
If I had one of those original Winchester 42s in high condition I would use it just like any other gun. The way the country is going I'm not sure we will have one in fifty years or so. I certainly would not worry about passing one to the grandkids.

Collecting ex wives is a grand past time. Just don't restore them to wives

Having attractive spouse half ones age shows wealth, power and influence. Just look at the Great American Chief. He is on this third one. I would say its right up there with having personal jet along with several castle-like residencies. A wealthy man once showed me one of them fancy 18k gold erotic watches. It had special mechanisms where at certain time on the dial the man was actually doing a woman. I admit it was one of the neatest watches I have ever seen. It came from Swiss custom watch maker and cost tens of thousands, but if I had the money I would probably buy it just to have one. Much kooler than any gun and one can take it anywhere and show it off to people that appreciate what it took to make one.

Let me help you with superior choice. There is something nice out there called 1100 .410 Tournament with wonderful polish, blueing, wood and machine cut checkering. Great weapon where you only have to pull the bolt let go and the mechanism does the rest until magazine is empty. You can just focus on target and forget about moving your arm back and forth. Wonderful isn't it? The gun is Made in USA instead of Japan which is another big plus.

Buy one jager and tell us how long it keeps working.

The part on the action bar that the bolt rides on in the .410 1100 is now made of some kind of sintered material. They break.

As of two years ago, there are no parts and Remington cannot fix those guns. Things may have changed, but beware of recent production 1100 .410.

Besides, even if you do find an old one that works, it won't cycle anything reloaded more than once so you're stuck using new shells. Price new .410's lately?

Superior choice to a 42? Barf.

And.. why do you call a sporting shotgun a weapon?

Jagermeister if you think a semi auto .410 is better than a 42 .410 pump gun you are most likely on the wrong site. It is not about speed to a limit but the process. Just pulling the trigger on a semi auto, as fast as you can, to take birds is not hunting. Until you figure that out keep trying those 1100's. Perhaps you like a little powder blown back into your face. I give them a pass but will pass on using one in the field.

I used 1100's for over thirty years for clay targets, from 1965-2000, including 11/87s, and long ago learned their limitations and their flaws. In small bore we use to keep two on hand to keep just one running while the other was waiting for repair or waiting to make it function properly. I ran a hundred straight in Skeet and had to borrow a third gun to finish using factory shells. Each gauge was accompanied by a tackle box of parts and trigger groups to make ready repairs possible at shoots. Feed latches, extractor, firing pins, o rings, action springs, action bars, you name it I've replace them.

I own a Winchester Model 12, which is just like the 42 which has had zero parts replaced in over six decades of use. Between my father and myself it has had several pickup load of shells shot in it and zero parts replaced. No 1100 ever made can say the same.

I've used both the 1100 and the improved 11-87 Remingtons in Argentina. After a morning shoot of a case of shells (500) you'll shoot a single shot all afternoon if you do not clean the gun instead of eating lunch...Geo

The newer powders certainly help, but I've heard the South American shells are not necessarily top notch.

The 1100 is a natural pointer, and most folks shoot one well. The best thing you can do is get a good aftermarket trigger group.

I've had several and am now down to 3, all 12 gauge guns from the 70's with the diamond in the pistol grip. They were simply better made then.

A Remington skeet gun is a hoot, and a reminder of days past when not every guy could afford the best equipment. That gun did a lot for the sport even with it's obvious limitations.

There are simply better choices now, and I would not go near a .410

JM, please tell us what personal experience you have with this gun that suggests you have any factual basis for helping KY Jon make a "superior choice".

Right, I thought so. None!

I'll make a suggestion for how you, JM, can make a superior choice. Stop offering advice about things you know nothing about. Stop cluttering up threads with diversions into semi autos. Stay on topic and add to the discussion, don't pretend to know things you know nothing about.

I make that suggestion with the knowledge that that is how I operate on here. I don't tell experts stupid things. I keep my mouth shut and learn. And only when I can add something, do I post. You would do well to try it.

I bought 1972 vintage 16ga with 26" IC VR barrel. It functions fine with standard 1oz loads. I should have bought 12ga Beretta with 24" barrel with interchangeable tubes. Should have remembered what Madonna once said: "Italians do it better......" As they say live and learn.......

Someplace a village is missing it's jagermeister.

Watch Japanese tv, i watch nhk news channel sometimes. On it there is a programme called "supreme skills", it gives people with various trades challenges. One episode showed turners being challenged to drill a .5mm hole in a pencil lead. Another, a group of elderly toolmakers were tasked with making a high efficiency pendulum.

My point is they were ordinary working skilled people, being celebrated on national television. On western media, people with manual skills are not celebrated, the thing to be is a vulture fund investor, or banker, making millions, screwing peoples lives up, living in hugely expensive houses, driving bentleys or ferraris.

P.S. If you enter nhk supreme skills into youtube, most of the episodes are on there.

Why should we believe anything you tell us Jagermeister, after you lied to us about the number of guns you actually own, and about your reloading activities?

And why do you continue to advise guys here to buy semi-autos? This is a forum about double guns Jagermeister... you know... the kind of gun you don't even own.... which brings us back to the obvious question...

Why are you even here?

Oh wait a minute... you had to do some Trump bashing. I keep forgetting that Liberal Socialists like you only support anti-gun Democrats.

Gee, am I supposed to feel bad that you don't believe me? Hey, reality check I don't give feces what you believe or think of me.

JM, it's clear you don't care what anyone thinks about you. Not just Keith. Despite well intentioned encouragement from numerous members here, you have ignored all advice and continue to post silly, stupid and factually incorrect comments.

I wonder what kind of perverse thrill you get from annoying most of the membership here? What is in it for you to be thought of as a fool here?