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Sidelock
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Sidelock
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More or less what Ken said. Here is a googled up bit of history on Irish guns.
Captain Grizzly45's Avatar -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Join Date:Jul 2008Location:The backwoodsPosts:2,124Rep Power:24
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Hmmmm,well back in the days of yore [17 th to early 20th century]we had aquite a firearms industry here in Ireland.. One of the most famous bespoke English gunmakers John Rigby and Sons started out in Dublin,as did William Greener,and a few others as well.
Thats not to forget that pretty much every major city in Ireland had it's resident gunmakers,many of which have been lost to time. That alone is a worthy and lengthy book/doctorate for anyone intrested in that..
As part of the English empire,it was hardly surprising that we had plenty of bespoke English guns here..However due to many dumbass political movements,political decisions,riots,rebellions,wars and general ill will over the course of Irish history firearms manufacture has been somwhat restricted if not down right frowned upon by the powers that be.
The last modern firearms made here were in the 1960s to about early 1970s ,and were called "The Fenian" it was an O/U shotgun in 12 ga of a rather unique opening system,somthing onto the French" Darne "shotgun.They were made in Birr,Co Offaly by P V Kavanagh.
Most of them were exported to the US,Canada,and the UK. But they werent a great seller,and had problems with their steel guide rods in the action.However,they have a collectors value now as they are uniquely Irish.
Those ,apart from some ingenious SMGs,based mostly on either the Sten or Sterling made by either sections of the warring Northern Ireland community in the 1960s to 1990s.Known as either "Ulster funny guns",or "Harland &Wolff Specials"[From the famous Belfast shipyard,where some "after hours work" was conducted by boith sides],and the odd traditional "zip gun" Are pretty much it for Irish gunmaking.
By and large most gunmakers bought in English guns and actions,etc and just stamped with their names and assembled them for their customers.Hardly surprising as the massive then English armaments industries of Birmingham,London etc could churn out stuff like that for ten a penny and export it to its Empire.
What we generally have here is more famous personalities associated with certain guns during our history,or certain firearms having an asociation with Irish history.IE Eamon Develara one of our prime ministers is associated with using a Mauser C96 broomhandle pistol in the war of independance and civil war. Daniel O Connell ,a great liberator of the Catholics and famous duellist is asscoiated with John Nock[Another Irish gunsmith] duelling pistols.
So maybe I've missed some other Irish made design,but by and large I cant think of one orginal uniquely Irish designed gun.
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Joined: Dec 2001
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Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 3,553 |
I have always liked the Celtic type engraving, with that lovely kinda over n under strap work, with knots & birds etc. I have seen a few Scottish guns, Alex Martin are the ones that come to mind, & of course McKay Brown But I haven't seen one with an Irish name. I'd LOVE to find one , as I spent a few years in Ireland playing Fiddle music in a pub, & I have such a love for that country & the people there cheers franc
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Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 11,786 Likes: 673 |
Here's a link to a Cowan's auction of a field grade hammer-gun made by John Fry of Derry, Ireland. https://www.cowanauctions.com/lot/irish-...er-derry-138748I wish there were more pictures and details because this John Fry gun has nice lines. Jagermeister ought to be along shortly to advise bobski to buy either an Ithaca pump or an A5 Browning. Guns are obviously made just about everywhere, even by prisoners in penitentiaries. But some areas or cities just have all of the ingredients, such as sources of hydropower, coal, iron, steel-making, highly skilled machinists and assemblers, and the political climate to make them especially attractive to a thriving gun-making trade. A market of willing consumers helps too.
Voting for anti-gun Democrats is dumber than giving treats to a dog that shits on a Persian Rug
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Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 335 Likes: 7
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 335 Likes: 7 |
I have a Thomas Henshaw & Co, Dublin 20 bore BLNE. It has 28" bbls and .004/.006 chokes.
Short answer: Retailed in Dublin, Made in Birmingham.
Long answer:
The gun was made by G&S Holloway of Birmingham. I have a between the wars Holloway catalog. On the cover the catalog proclaims:"Agents: Irish Free State -- Thos. H. Henshaw & Co. Dublin" The Irish Free State only existed between 1922 and 1937. The guns serial number starts with a H, only found as a prefix to the serial number of the gun on the under rib of the barrel. The H (for Holloway) is not present on the trigger guard, but the rest of the serial number is. The gun is No. 710 on page 19 of the catalog. 17 gbp. It was London reproofed in 2002 for 950 bar, 2 3/4". The watertable is quite crowded with the original Birmingham proofs and the later London reproofs. I haven't done any looking for Thomas Henshaw and Co. Perhaps I will now.
Joe
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Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 5,021
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 5,021 |
Their muzzleloading rifles were renown for their accuracy.
"The famous Creedmoor Match of 1874 between the American and Irish national teams came about as the result of a letter that was sent to the New York Herald and published on November 22, 1873 entitled “Challenge to the Riflemen of America from the Riflemen of Ireland”.
The U.S. team used a combination of breech loading Remington Rolling Blocks and Sharps rifles. The Irish team used Rigby muzzle loading rifles.
The first Creedmoor Match was won by the American team on the very last shot of the match. The score with one shot remaining was the Irish team 931 and the American team 930."
Its a shame we used breechloaders and not our muzzleloading rifles. It would have been interesting to see what maker of rifles our team would have used during that shoot.
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Joined: Sep 2007
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Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 2,814 Likes: 2 |
I had, for a while, a very nice BLNE marked "Hunter and Sons,Belfast ( I think). I queried that gun on this forum and got little info. Passed it on to a neighbor here who had to have it
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Posts: 971 Likes: 41
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 971 Likes: 41 |
The Irish gunmaker Newton set up in the town of Grantham in eastern England and taught gunmaking to his apprentices- Wogdon, and the Manton brothers. Joseph Manton passed his skills on to men such as Purdey and others. So in a way the foundations of the English trade were laid by an Irishman.
One Irish gun i saw was a back action peninsula lock hammergun. It bore the name Berry, Dublin, on the locks.
Last edited by Shotgunlover; 05/21/17 04:31 PM.
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Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 617 Likes: 51
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 617 Likes: 51 |
Below is a list from IGC of Irish gunmakers, smiths and stores. Having just spent a while doing this, please accept that it is not necessarily exhaustive and misses out some considerable additional info on several of the names. However, it gives an idea of the scale of shotgun retail in the time frame we are interested in.
I can of course expand further on some of these names if required.
L Alley Dublin Gunmaker 1760-1775 N Alley Dublin Gunmaker 1760 Henry Allport Cork Gunmaker 1826?-1880? William Anglin Wexford Gunmaker c.1830 Edward Bassit Dublin Gunmaker 1840-1850 Bryan Cork Gun maker 1810? Thomas Calderwood 22 Little Mary Street Dublin Gunmaker 1810-1896 Clarke Dublin Pistol maker c.1815 George Cooney Kells Hardware Merchant c.1900 W Doyle & Co Church Court and Church Street Dublin Gunmakers 1900 P Duff Ballygawley Gunmaker 1900 John Dunne 10 Russell Street Tralee Gunmaker 1900 Edward Dublin NK John Edwards Castle Street Tralee Gunmaker 1927-30? Eley Brothers 9 Dawson Street - See William Eley Dublin J Fearniey Soothill Gunmaker c.1875 The Fenian Gun Company Dublin? Gunmakers 1890? John Flint & Co Church Court Dublin Gunmaker 1900 Ran Ford Dublin Gunmaker c.1740 Thomas Fowler Dublin Gunmaker c.1810 Foys Athlone Gun Dealers? c.1900 Freeney's High Street Galway Gun Dealer c.1920? Paddy Garnett Crampton Court, Dame Street; Essex Quay Dublin Gunsmith 1860-1990? M Garnett & Son See Paddy Garnett Dublin Garnetts & Keegans See Paddy Garnett Dublin Gilroy Lurgan Gunmaker 1820? J Gray Dublin Gun maker 1800? Hall & Powell see Benjamin Powell of Dublin, Ireland Dublin Harold Dundalk Gun maker 1825? H Hart Gunmaker c.1860? Hely Bros 26-29 Dame Street Dublin Gun dealers & fishing tackle 1900?-1965? Thomas H Henshaw & Co Dublin Gunmakers? c.1920? Agents for Holloway & Sons Timothy Hughes Cork Gunmaker c.1770 Irish Metal Industries Ltd Dublin Ammunition Manufacturers 1926?-1962? William Kavanagh 6 Anderson's Court, Greek Street Dublin Gun, pistol & rifle maker 1796-1928 P V Kavanagh & Sons Dublin Gunmaker 1850?-1965? L Keegan 35 Upper Ormonde Quay Dublin Gunmaker 1900-1939 Langson Dublin NK John Lanigan Dublin Gunmaker c.1840 Leech Sligo Gunmaker 1820?-1846? Michael Loughlan North Main Street Youghal Gunmaker 1900 John McDaniel Monaghan Gunmaker 1818?-1840? John McDaniel Monaghan Gunmaker c.1800-1825 Farrell McDermot 35 St Mary's Abbey Dublin Gun maker 1795-1827 Roger Mulligan Dublin Gun maker 1719-1727 J T Mulligan Cork NK 1880? John Murphy Dublin Gunmaker c.1820 T W Murray & Co 87 Patrick Street Cork Gunmaker 1826-1956 T Naughton & Sons Sports Dealers c.1930? Francis Nelson 32 Castle Street Sligo Gunmaker 1900?-1930? Augustine Nerstor 28 & 33 George Street Limerick Gunmaker 1900 A Nestor Limerick Gunsmith? c.1880? Daniel O'Connor 12 Parliament Street Dublin Gunmaker 1850? J C Parkes & Co 110-111 Combe Dublin Gunmaker 1900 John Parkinson 17 Arram Quay Dublin Gunmaker 1900 Thomas Pattison Unknown address Dublin Gunmakers 1835-1860? Benjamin Powell Dublin Gunmaker 1750?-1800? M Ransford Dublin Gunmaker c1750 Read Dublin Gunmaker & Sword Cutler G Richardson Unknown address Cork Gun maker 1824?-1875 Richardson Doughal Gun maker c.1850 Thomas Richardson & Sons See G Richardson Cork John Rigby 19 Suffolk Street Dublin Gun & rifle manufacturers 1775-1892 Rumbold Dublin Gun makers 1750?-1810? Ryan Dublin Gunmaker C.1800 Shore Gunmaker c.1800 E Thompson Essex Quay Dublin Gunsmith 1900 William Trulock Britain Street Dublin Gunmakers 1814-1918 Trulock & Harriss See William Trulock Dublin Trulock Brothers See William Trulock Dublin Joseph Tuthill 134 North Main Street Youghal Gunsmith 1900 Samuel Wallace Dublin Gun maker 1775? Walsh Dublin Gunmaker c.1840 Watts Bros Ltd 4 Upper Abbey Street Dublin Gun & Rifle Makers 1900?-1950? Charles Weekes & Co 27 Essex Quay - See John Weekes Dublin John Weekes & Co 12 Fishramble Street Dublin Gunmakers 1835-1906 John Wheelock Main Street Wexford Gunsmith 1900 P W Whitney Cork Gunmaker Whittaker & Co 14 William Street Limerick Gunsmiths 1900 Wilkes & Harrison Dublin Ireland Dates 1893?
Tim
Last edited by trw999; 05/22/17 02:13 PM.
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Joined: Dec 2001
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Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 6,457 Likes: 336 |
Tim, thanks. That is quite an effort.
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Joined: Oct 2014
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Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 312 Likes: 2 |
I have "the first gem in my collection" which I stumbled up on when I was a teenager, a Calderwood shotgun, early irish made gun. James Calderwood advertised as gunmaker to the lord lieutenant in Ireland, and most examples I have seen have been truly stunning guns finished to a high standard. I feel like Calderwood as a maker has been overlooked in the annals of gunmaking history its not a name we have all heard of like rigby's or even Kavanagh.
I found an old book on google where Calderwood was credited along side makers we know like Manton for pushing the trade forwards to making what we recognise as truly fine sporting guns - I have since lost this reference but I'm sure ill have it somewhere.
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