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Jul 28th, 2025
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Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 709
Sidelock
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OP
Sidelock
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 709 |
I have an English shotgun with the following London proofs: Crown over V (visual proof), Crown over P (barrel proof), rampaging lion over cp (definitive proof) and 12 in diamond. No NP or nitro proof marks. From proof marks I would guess it to be pre 1886 but it has a Whitworth type steel barrel, (not Damascus), is a Deeley box lock with rebounding sears and bushed firing pins.
I think it is a black powder gun because there is no NP proofs, but its design seems more consistent with a gun form the 20th century
Help
Last edited by pooch; 05/18/17 06:40 PM.
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Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 12,743
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 12,743 |
Pooch;
I am operating from memory now, but my recollection is the chamber mark (12 in Diamond) was not used prior to 1887. Along with the chamber marking there should be a mark for bore diameter when proofed. Prior to 1887 this would be in whole numbers only as 13, 12, 11 etc. After 1887 it could have the "Tween" sizes as 13/1, 12/1 etc.
You do not mention either "Not For Ball" or "Choke" so it may have been cylinder bored in both barrels.
Without the NP mark it is a black powder proofed gun.
Miller/TN
I Didn't Say Everything I Said, Yogi Berra
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Joined: Mar 2005
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Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 709 |
Looking at the gun again it has a 12 over a c inside a diamond the word choke is spelled out. The bore is whole number 12. The proof with the rampaging lion on top is nearly impossible to read, but under magnification it looks more like three letters the last being a p. That is probably the nitro proof and puts the gun made in the early 20th century which is more consistent with with its overall appearance.
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Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 12,743
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 12,743 |
Pooch;
I am going to have to get out my article on British proof & look closer. The Crown/CP would actually be Crown/GP (Gunmakers Proof). If smokeless proofed though it should have the letters NP.
Miller/TN
I Didn't Say Everything I Said, Yogi Berra
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Joined: Jan 2002
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Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 11,574 Likes: 167 |
Miller, your memory is good. 12 over C and the fractional gauge marks (12/1 etc) were both part of the rules of 1887.
"Choke" dates from 1875. All barrels with at least .008 constriction had to be marked choke, and the sender could request them to be marked choke with as little as .004 constriction. So no choke mark would mean cylinder or something very close.
Last edited by L. Brown; 05/19/17 08:08 AM.
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Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 709
Sidelock
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OP
Sidelock
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 709 |
There is one London proof that has the rampaging lion on top with a letter plus np in script below the lion which is near impossible to read. I think it may be the one on my gun.
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