doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com CSMC changing

Got a call from Lou @ CSMC earlier this week. He was just checking in with me because we did not make it to the Southern SxS. We had a good, long conversation about the current double gun market and how much things have changed and how the double gun market is winding down. Bottom line, they are moving away from the double gun mfg. business and toward the current market for modern firearms. Sure, they will still build a Mod. 21 or A.H. Fox if you've got the coin, but even those are probably coming to an end before too much water goes under the bridge, and the days of introducing any new o/u or sxs, or a repro of either, are pretty much over. The new Savage/Fox offering is probably a last hurrah.

I could see this coming when they introduced the DP12 double barreled pump shotgun. It was certainly a nice run from Tony Galazan to give us what he did. Wish them the best going forward...
JR

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should cause the value for csmc brand sxs guns to go up... just like it did for browning, ruger, skb, etc...

There are dozens of A10's and RBL's in inventory at CSMC. and a good many on the secondary market right now, so any immediate desires are going to be met IF you can find the configuration you want. But as word gets out, they will begin to dry up fairly quickly. The better looking wood and longer barrels will go first. Discounts will dry up and values will begin to rise, slowly, until all the outliers suddenly realize theses American iconic shotguns are going away and they don't want to be left out, for whatever reason. The lines will soon begin to form. Wish I had bought a .410 RBL w/30" barrels...
JR

Always hate seeing an American company that makes pretty decent guns stop producing their stuff. I don't own any CSMC stuff, the only gun business I've ever done with them is when I sold them a Darne and then bought a nice small bore Zoli Expedition from Lou. Other than that, I wasn't really interested in their other guns. For years I thought I'd might want to order a Fox from them, I honesty just saw a few Fox guns that had issues. That in itself turned me off. And then came the RBL's, the A-10's, Inverness, etc. None of them did anything for me.
Are you sure you regret not buying a long barreled .410 RBL? Why? So you could bed down the forend to make it stop wiggling around? BTW....why didn't Lou fix that (serious question)?

I am similarly saddened to hear the news. When I think of CSMC, the phrase "modern interpretations of classic doubles" immediately comes to mind. Some double gun enthusiasts want only new guns, or US built guns and galazan's departure from that scene will leave a void in the market.

Personally I feel that their used guns were priced too high, but I do enjoy the variety of accessories offered in their catalog.

I agree they price their used on the high side, but the one I did buy from them, 20g Louis Christophe SLE, was exactly as described and I was happy with the deal.

That sad I am saddened to hear they are stepping back. All there Foxes and RBLs I have held were nice and the three guys I know who brought them and hunted with me are happy.

None of their new guns, save their Foxes, ever tempted me.

The RBL .410 was very nice to hold. Although I had grave concerns about the overall quality control on RBLs, if the price had not been so high I might have bit the bullet. I have a weak spot for long barreled .410 doubles. Lou is a heck of nice fellow, and has a memory unequaled by anyone I've ever known. Sorry to hear of their impending departure from the double gun business.

When I showed Lou the little Yildiz Elegante 4 at the fall Southern several years ago he sat there looking intently at it and commented on how amazing it was that it could be bought for what I told him. He was obviously impressed at the quality for the price. I would not be a bit surprised if he and Tony had some long discussions, about the Turkish gun manufacturing trade, after that. Not that the Yildiz was anything near the workmanship of CSMC guns, but that there was some stiff competition on the horizon, in the double gun business.

SRH

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The Turks are getting better, practice does that.

However, I believe they have always been capable of better, but breaking into the higher end niche is hard.

Spanish guns have never really overcome the stigma of the low end stuff that came out of Spain, even though they always were capable of some good work.

CSMC is a smart company, maybe not perfect, but smart overall, the market for $10k and above American SxS is only so big and They are looking down the road.

I have to admit the more I read this thread the more I think about a Fox from them. I just can't see where it would fit amongst what I have now and I am about to cull to pay off an auction buy.

No, I wanted one to re-sell at some point down the road for twice what I paid. Go try to find one, not that you would.

And I see you have seen my ad here for my RBL12 w/30" barrels that had an almost imperceptible amount of side-to-side play in the btfe barrel channels I decided to fix the quick way. Worked fine and didn't bother me enough to send it back to CSMC. Lou hasn't had the chance to fix it, but he would, for no charge. It's a killer gun with great dynamics, but I never shoot it anymore. Whoever buys it will like it.

Fwiw, I decided to take the high road and answer your obviously sarcastic question in a straightforward fashion instead of the way an a$$h0le really deserved to be answered. But thanks for asking.

Just walk out backwards, and we'll think you're walking in.
JR

Go get a tissue JR. I didn't mean to hurt your little feelers bro. Don't be mad at me for you having to glass bed a forend in on a new gun. You've got some nerve calling me an [censored]... You've been a pompous prick around here for ages.

Towards modern firearms? Meaning AR-15s and 45 Colts? Why not offer a beautifully crafted bolt action rifle with a sweet match barrel? More useful.

Sniff, I did.
Yes, you did.
Not mad at you over something you have nothing to do with.
I know it.
Probably so, my wife says I am anyway.
JR

Yes. But I doubt they bother with a bolt gun. Rate-of-fire seems to be the hallmark of most of their offerings instead of precision. Here is what they are moving towards (under the Standard Firearms Mfg banner):

http://stdgun.com/

JR

.

You have to be kidding me? Everyone and his mother is building that stuff.

I guess the only game in town will be the Turks. Then jump 10 fold for a lowest level Spanish gun.

I remember a picture posted here recently of 3 hunters in 1905, 2 of them had repeaters already. I guess our original doubleguns didn't last that long either.

Very true, but it's what's selling.
JR

Jeez, if this is the high road, I wonder what the low road looks like. LOL

Way to go cback, I thought no one noticed.

I'll tell you both. The low road is just replying "hey a$$h0le, f*ck you for saying that", instead of doing it in the roundabout way I did. Half of what I post here shouldn't be taken too seriously. Ted Schefelbein and I have had our moments here as well without too much damage being done.

LeFusil drew first blood with his snide little comment. He poked me in the eye, and I kicked him in the nuts. No big deal. I think LeFusil is probably a great guy, especially considering he doesn't mind running into burning buildings for a living.

But I think he perceived my previous posts about CSMC as either promoting them or self-serving on my part, and he got his hackles up enough to fire one over my bow. No big deal afaic. Hell, some of my best friends are a$$h0les.

Are we done here with this now? Everybody good?

Just remember, man who stand on commode, high on pot.
JR

John, I had no idea how you would respond. I seriously did find your post funny and wondered if you'd just got so pissed off, you didn't notice. But I loved your reply to mine. It describes an attitude that is perfectly in keeping with me and my friends as well as my preference for an "in the lodge, after the hunt" conversational style that is my preference for a board like this.

Not that you care but you've gone up a couple notches in my estimation and I'm sure La Fusil can look after himself. As you mentioned, he doesn't piss around in real life.

IMHO, It's fashion. I have no idea what's the hot thing that comes next but the current demand for black gun styles is simply the fashion of our times.

I also think that classic doubles, pumps and bolt actions will always represent some corner of the market and that too will change as the "fashion" for classic styles ebbs and floes.

If Tony and Lou think it's time to get out of making doubles, I sure wouldn't argue with them. And having had a front row seat for 30 years watching the US shoe manufacturing industry move elsewhere, I too would be watching the Turkish development with careful interest, were I them.

I don't think the earlier years of Spanish production is all that instructive for what may come. Industry, and this includes gunmaking, has become much more sophisticated about moving to lower production cost regions and becoming adept at quality production, although it's typically 10- 15 years for the native industry to get the quality up to world class standards. There is always a learning curve. Turkey seems well on it's way.

Recently a few well known Spanish makers have closed their doors along with the Italian maker FAMARS and now CSMC pulling out. Just the market for double guns weeding itself out? Who is the biggest market for these guns? Live pigeon shooters? Hunters? Trap or skeet shooters?

Absolutely. You could see it coming several years ago. Where it ends is anybody's guess, but the old market force of supply and demand is having its effect right now.

As far as market segmenting, I would have to think game guns are still the biggest part of the sxs market, with a small piece being the new-found Sporting Clays events for the sxs, and a very tiny piece being live pigeon shooters, most of whom now shoot o/u's. Skeet or Trap, practically nothing.
JR

I was completely surprised that FAMARS a high end Italian maker closed as they seemed to be one of the darlings of the ultra users of double guns and the demographic that can most afford high end doubles, live pigeon shooters.

I mean if you are throwing around big money on one shot the least of your problems is the price of your shotgun. Isn't this the overseas arena where the mega priced English and Italian doubleguns rule?

FAMARS, Fabbri, Perazzi, P&V, Beretta's Premium guns, Bertuzzi, Bosis, and 2 or 3 others I've probably left out were all fighting for the same customer, and I think FAMARS just got elbowed out. If I'm not wrong, I think there were some quality issues about A&S guns of late that may have influenced their demise as well.
JR

It is very likely that all of those just above and any other similar, as John says, build so few SxS that they could walk away from it and never miss it. I cannot imagine how small a fraction of 1% SxS's must be in the competition gun market. And even the Limeys shoot mostly O/U's I suppose since most of the holy SxS game guns are likely in the US.

IIRC Bertuzzi is now gone as well

I wouldn't be surprised if CSMC's quality control has come around to bite them in the a$$. I know a bunch of people that would never buy a CSMC gun because of their quality control and customer service. I was having that conversation a couple days ago with some very knowledgeable folks in the SxS industry. The double gun world is too small to get a poor reputation, and CSMC has pissed way too many people off. I'd love to order another one of their guns, but after the first debacle, Ill take my money somewhere else.

Already a small customer base that just got one customer smaller in a market that can least afford to lose any of its customers.

Where would you head to the Spanish, French, Italian or English makers?

I think the question has become which USED gun, and from what maker, are you going to buy?

Best,
Ted

There is little doubt that Connecticut Shotgun has had enough issues with their doubles to warrant all the criticism leveled at them. I have owned 5 RBL's; A Launch Edition 20 ga. configured the same way as all the rest I've owned: pg, btfe, sst, that I have zero problems with but is now for sale because I never shoot it. A 28 ga. w/28"bbls that was a dandy but I soon found I could not shoot it well, traded it back to CSM for what now I cannot remember.

I have owned 3 RBL12's, two of which I still have, all configured the same way as the previously mentioned guns. All had trigger issues, with the worst thing being a forend lug that came loose. Everything was fixed quickly and well.

The only A10 I owned was a 32" clays gun. Broke both mainsprings within a few hundred rounds of each other, but I must say I shot that gun hard-well over 4K rounds in a year's time. Shouldn't have mattered though. It's a gorgeous gun that got many compliments along the way and is sitting at the Buda Cabelas GL right now @ $10,999 lol. http://www.gunsinternational.com/guns-fo...un_id=100680259

I have very mixed feelings about these CSM guns. They are iconic in their own way, and are distinctive as well. I really don't have any regrets about any of them. Plenty of others do, but one thing is certain: there won't ever be anything offered here in the US again to rival them and what they represent, despite the prevailing circumstances...
JR

Yes, I do admire CSMC/Galazan for trying to make these guns in the USA and keep the market alive. Galazan is a smart man, but in the end the lack of demand for their guns, no matter their quality, was/is a salient factor behind his decision.

I suppose history is repetitive. I read long ago in Jack O'Conner's book about shotguns that the M-21 never made money for Winchester. Only Mr. Olin's involvement kept it alive.

How about Merkel, Rizzini ?

It goes for anyone selling anything, sell junk, have poor service or high prices and you go out of business or try something else.

rapidfire

Its tough to be a maker of both "best" guns and "black" guns too.

Saddened to hear CSMC are falling inline with the rest of American made sxs. A sad day indeed, I enjoy my RBL, it's been hell on Doves. Sad day indeed!

If CSMC's new doublegun market has slowed to the point that they're throwing in the towel to move in a different direction, it brings up the question . . . how about their used gun inventory? I'm not talking about just their own brand, but rather their extensive inventory of high end doubles and their marketing strategy of them. Will they shift directions there, too?

I can speak to the continued existence of a couple of the Italian makers mentioned above as possibly out of business. At my gun club today, a friend shared his new 12 bore P&V with me, fresh from Italy. It was set up for sporting clays, 32" barrels, sporter configuration. Engraving by one of the masters (actually not to my taste). He was pounding the tar out of it. He liked it so much he more has a 28 bore and a 410 on order from them, delivery 1.5 years out.

At the FAMARS tent at the southern, I learned that the US division of FAMARS purchased the assets of the Italian factory from bankruptcy and they would be happy to build you a gun to your taste.

Good question. Their prices on CSMC's used guns have been at or near the top of the market. Something has to give!

Galazan (and other dealers of used fine guns) have sold a lot of sxs guns in the last 25 years. I believe more of these guns will be coming on the market in the short to mid term. So the problem is not just Galazan's, its a common problem among other like dealers.

Seems like the high end Italian guns are doing just fine with long waiting lists.

Owen was your friend's P&V an O/U?


http://peruginivisiniusa.com/index.asp

I think the picture you are painting is a bit rosy, John. We are entering a time line when just about anything that was sought out by either the greatest generation, or, the Pepsi generation that followed it, is going down in value, doubleguns included. Have you priced John Deere two cylinders, and compared them to what they were worth 20 years ago? How 'bout model A Fords? We have perhaps six, soon to be graduating high school seniors in the neighborhood, who aren't interested in learning to drive, or, owning a car.
We do have a great deal of interest in trap shooting at the high school level,
but, if those kids ever use anything besides a low end O/U or even lower pump, I haven't seen it, and I've been watching.

I don't see anything related to double guns going up in value, long term. Just the opposite.

Hope I'm wrong. But, I don't think I am.


Best,
Ted

I don't think Ted is wrong at all. Demographics reflect recent college grads and those approaching 30 are not interested in encumbering themselves with fixed assets and other stuff other than technology based gadgetry. Most of the younger folks who shoot today have little regard for SxS shotguns and Galazan knows this. It's my belief that older collectors will be disposing of their stuff so their wives won't have to later. Personally the last thing we need is another 1911 manufacturer or double pump gun (whatever that thing is from CSMC) but that seems to be where the money is. Maybe those of us in our 50's will be able to buy SxS's we can sell in our '70s. Not sure who we will sell them to but hey you can't take it with you so enjoy them now.

Ted, I agree 100%. The market for sxs guns has been declining for some time and I believe will continue to fall. As you all know, there is a glut of used sxs guns of all types on the market and many of these guns are priced at 1995-2007 levels- sellers are trying to recoup their cost or perhaps make a little money, a difficult task at best in today's market.

I think today's market for sxs guns is in many ways comparable to the period 1945-80 when the market was more interested in guns with firepower and magazine capacity. The Browning Superposed was one of the few doubles that did well during that time and we all know how that story ended.

Another problem I see is that the people with sufficient, disposable income today are not as interested in or have the opportunity to shoot game. I hope new shooters will eventually develop different attitudes toward the guns we like.

Since 1900 innovation in SXS gunmaking has been in manufacturing efficiency. Making the same product, with the same drawbacks for over 100 years but improving only the manufacturins methods does not indicate mental acuity.

Someone needs to inject some modernity in the SXS, making it owner serviceable, adaptable and repairable to the same degree as current self loaders. Technically it is possible.

The predicted future flood of high end used SXSs deters makers everywhere from new production. Not many would buy a 10K new SXS when they can get a decent used English best for half that sum. Used Italian best sells for much less.

Glad I live in "fly-over country". Those changes haven't made their way here, yet. Side x sides aren't very popular, but then, they haven't been in my lifetime, and I'm 65. So, that's no different. Maybe we are isolated from the ravages of fadism, somewhat, or maybe it is just slower getting here. I agree with the overall assessment of the market for S x Ss, but I see a growing market share for O/Us. The shooting sports are alive and well in the sticks ........... small town South. The high schools and colleges are starting up shotgun shooting programs at an unprecedented rate. Most of these kids begin with a gas gun in elementary or high school, but I see most of them graduating to O/Us as young adults.

Interesting observation about your graduating high school seniors not wanting to own a car, or even drive. I can assure you that is not happening here. Every kid in our part of the world wants to learn to drive by the time they learn to tie their shoes. Many save up and buy an old beater before they even have a learner's license. We see the same thing as far as wanting to own a car, though. It's pickups ......... diesel 4-WD pickups .......lifted and loud. Not just boys, petite little 17 year old girls, too. The market for off the farm used 4-WD trucks is strong, in fact, even a "badge of honor" of sorts, for a kid.

But, as always, what goes on in the big urban areas is what gets the attention. It has been that way as long as I can remember, and I don't see it changing.

SRH

The high end Italian O/U shotguns are doing just fine as noted by various members, why? I believe that you have to get your gun out there into the public with its name splattered all over the shooting sports media,

In other words.

Compete, Win, Repeat.

As often as necessary.

In every picture of Kim Rhode's, what was the first thing you see, PERAZZI.

My friend's P&V was an O/U, as are the two he has on order. I'll try and snap a pic when I see him next. It is very rare at my club to see a new bespoke SxS. I think it is fair to point out that not all the Italians are doing well. The shrinking market may be simply redistributed among the survivors.

I'm a little more optimistic. SxSs have been a niche market for my entire life. When I was young I was the odd one with the SxS and I did not have really good guns until I was much older. 10,000 baby boomers are retiring each day and will continue through 2030. The new SxS buyers are not the young they are the folks reaching there disposable income years. Kids are gone , house is paid for and now it's time have a few nice things. Most of my customers buying their 1st descent SxS are 55 to 75 and that is the fastest growing age group in the country. My opinion is the economy and poor consumer confidence caused the down turn in the market not lake of interest. I have seen an up turn in entry level 12ga extractor guns as consumer confidence has rebounded. Todays Sterlingworth buyer is tomorrows A grade buyer and so it goes.

Probably so, Ted. Might should have waited until I was sober to type that. Like I said previously, half of what I post here shouldn't be taken too seriously. I don't.
JR

Mark,
It happened as you had said with me regarding the house being paid for and the kids gone. As the Merkel ad used to say, "take your yield to the field". I certainly did!
My SxS's were purchased for my love and enjoyment of them, without any regard for sale or profit. After my passing, my son can decide if SxS's suit him.
Karl

Note however P&V literature on their website,

Master gunsmiths Messrs. Perugini and Visini, have been building hand-crafted quality Shotguns and Rifles since the 1960s working along side Daniele Perazzi.

Name recognition through competition and performance. A reputation earned is priceless and saying, "Its as good as a Perazzi." is music to his ears in more ways than one.

Every other high end Italian gunmaker also worked alongside Daniele - how could they not? They all live in the same town.

I continue to enjoy 16, 20 & 28ga RBLs. Sorry to hear the company is changing direction, but I expect they will continue to service & provide parts in future. Parts have always been a problem for the Parker Repros and I understand parts are even getting hard to find for the BSS.

You're missing my point altogether. They're making a specific point of associating their name with that of Perazzi.

Why?

Worldwide familiarity with and recognition of, that name.

John, I don't actually care if you are sober or not, as long as the point is valid.

But, not even considering new CSMC inventory, the used CSMC stuff on the "usual suspect" gun websites is positively stagnant, and unmoving. You can expand that comment to bunches of different SXS guns of all makes, if you include 12s. A few gunshops have been turning away 12 gauge SXS trade-in guns.
I don't recall a time in my life where the same 12 gauge doubles had been sitting in inventory somwhere for most of a decade.

Except, now.

Best,
Ted

Oh, I was sober. It was just a little self-deprecating turn of the word. Be assured, Ted, I knew you did not care. Whatever.

There may not be enough energy in this market to get some renewed interest in the CSMC guns. Lord knows things have slowed down a LOT for this stuff and may slow further yet.

I think there are probably less than 5K serious double gun enthusiasts in the US. Maybe a lot less. When you start considering the point of saturation for that small of a market, then also considering where all the RBL's, A10's, and Invernesses are supposed to go, the picture does start to become less rosy than I may have first thought.

I think I'm going to let Tony Galazan worry about it.
JR

probably gas up and pee at the same gas station...

I doubt it is the same town. The Perazzi factory is not in Gardone. It is about an hour's drive away in Botticino, less if you drive like an Italian though.

Been to both places several times and most likely will go again, for the guns, the food and the wine.

Not unusual for co-workers in the gun trade to part and the employee open his own business. It was commonplace in the English gun trade. No reason for it to be different in the Italian. Indeed, Daniele worked in a small shop from the age of 14, learning the trade. At age 18 he started his own business and started to make guns under his own name.

He was partnered with Ivo Fabrii for about a year, when Fabrii left and started his own business. Even such a notable as Ennio Mattarelli was working with the two when the first Perazzi competition gun was designed and born. Mattarelli took it to the '64 Olympics in Tokyo and set a new world record and took the gold in that event.

It is healthy for apprentices to work their way up in the business and eventually leave for greener pastures, IMO, though it must cause the business' owner some consternation. Without that, the wonderful Fabrii guns would not be.

SRH

I agree Stan, but I think it's spelled Fabbri.

While on Italian gunmakers: Skeetx recently posted this photo of the Fausti sisters on the 16 ga. forum. Nice looking Italian gunmaking family.

You mean something along these lines from Ivo Fabbri,

http://www.gunsinternational.com/guns-fo...un_id=100852985


http://www.fabbri.it/i-fabbri.html

So right, buzz. After correcting all the words "spell check" had screwed up, I missed the one I had misspelled.

SRH

One thing they made that was kool and rational thing to buy was SxS 20ga slug gun with fully rifled barrels plus scope mounting system. One must remember as population grows more and more areas are likely to become shotgun only big game hunting zones. Two shots are enough for mid-sized hoofed game like common deer.

Do you think they will make an field grade SXS full rifled slug gun?If so what the cost for them to make one? Also FAIR will make not regulated ,now are their regulated? And Last how can I contact them?

The one I have seen listed on Guns International few months ago with Leupold low power scope (1-4x I think) fixed rear blade and florescent front sight was priced at around $6000. I'm not sure if they still can make one, but it seems few samples must have been made.

Get these while their hot:
http://www.stdgun.com/sko/

https://video.search.yahoo.com/yhs/searc...amp;action=view

JR

I just got my Gamaliel Shooting Supply catalog in the mail.

35+ pages of guns, not even one SxS.

Lots of silencers, though. That's apparently the hot item.

We're doomed.

Maybe 50 years from now side by sides will be a hot item again! Bobby

I think this is the first solid evidence we have of the demise of SxS guns, and old, collectible guns in general Most of us are aware that there is an elephant in the room, and this is a graphic example. When all else fails, "follow the money". That's what Tony is doing.

Steve Barnett sure has gobs and gobs of high priced side by sides and keeps adding more every day to Guns International for sale. I'm not sure he would agree that the SxS market is dying/dead?

I can't even look at an M-16 style rifle without thinking that but for 2 years difference in birth year I would have been issued one and sent to a rice paddy with it. Selective fire! Woo-Woo!

They weren't quite as highly regarded then as now.

Neither were communists. We used to shoot them instead of electing them to public office.

Times do change.

Perhaps the people that have had their guns on consignment with him for years would say so though.....

I believe it is cyclic, there will always be core diehard group of enthusiasts, the expansion and contraction of the additional people in the market will wax and wane cyclically. The high and upper midlevel guns will stay marketable. The field grade stuff will remain good entry bargains for new guys in the market

I think that it is good the field grade stuff stays within reach as without entry level stuff within reach many will not get their feet wet and become diehards.

As for the proliferation of high priced stuff such as at Steve Barnett and CSMC, much of it is overpriced.

If Tony G. couldn't succeed in the SxS & upscale O/U market with no US of A competition & declining foreign competition why does he think he can succeed in the black gun market?

The black gun market is currently where the interest is but the competition is fierce & any company with capital & a competent engineering staff can enter the market. It evolves into who can produce acceptable quality at the lowest cost & that won't be done in the Hartford Conn. area.

Tony G. had a niche market & the ability to make some very nice & desirable shotguns that sold for high $$ but quality control & customer service was/is abysmal. That had to hurt sales in what is a small market.

He will be gone from all markets just like A.H.Fox was gone after a few starts.

SxSs have been a small but dedicated segment of the market for the last 70yrs and still is. Most enthusiast prefer older guns. The new SxS market is a small segment of a small segment. Tony is getting out of the new SxS market but he is still selling vintage ones. With a glut of Black guns and some ARs under $500 Its not a market I would want to play in. Who does not make a Black gun today??

Never seen a classic black gun. Don't think there is such a thing. Don't have much use for them myself.

It upsets me to look through sporting publications and most all the hunters are shooting over and unders ,in my humble opinion they should be carrying side by sides! Bobby

Ugly, slab sided, two by fours as opposed to a sleek SxS. No accounting for taste.

I have both SxS and O/U and have hunted with both. In my youth, I also hunted my grandfather's 870 pump and still do occasionally. My apologies to the O/U and single barrel crowd, but I must say that the SxS is far more comfortable to carry in one hand and rest on the right shoulder when hunting. I just seem to feel more centered when drawing down on my quarry with a SxS. The superiority of the SxS as a hunting implement seems an inevitable conclusion to those who thoughtfully ponder gun choice.

I have shot Tony's 16 shot double barrel pump gun and I must admit that I was this close to writing a check. Where is it written that Tony will stop manufacturing and marketing classic side by side shotguns?

Brittany Man compares Tony Galazan to Ansley Fox in the context of "failed ventures". Tony Galazan has been in the gun business many times as long as Ansley Fox was. Tony is also a many times millionaire and has done much more for the gun trade in this country than did Ansley Fox. If Tony "winds down" over the next decade or two, he will have done what no one person has done before.

dedication ceases when people stop buying.

his guns were priced high to corner the wealthy market left in conn. from the glory days.
any sales outside conn...well, pony up or buy a yiltz.

he's a wise man.

I have the double barrel pump..You it may be wild ideal would be make big stopper gun for game..in othe word a double barrel rifle..When guy Tony get out
the double business we are screw in a big way, I hope Tony listening....

https://youtu.be/d6krneaI9nw
JR

Or...
https://youtu.be/G2OTSw6eZ08
JR

While Tony may have his critics, I believe you are right

Actually we will not be screwed in any way. There are many, many double guns up for sale and the future looks even brighter for the buyer. While mid-term or future presidential elections are likely to affect semi-auto military style rifles and high capacity handguns with associated parts like high cap magazines it isn't going to affect guns that can be shot two times before reloading is necessary. Now is the time to buy AR15s as prices for basic models are in $350 to $400 range Glock 18 magazines were only $25 per mag at Midway last week.
This is really good time to pick up stuff like this.

IF You want it...