doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Making a Fox gun?

The new savage "fox" is much like when they re-indruduced the Dodge Charger in 2006.
Was the charger name suited for a 4dr sedan that had no resemblance of the original namesake? Not really, but it doesnt mean it wasnt a nice car.

[quote=gunut]but for the amount of engraving and grade of wood all original foxes were the same inside..........I think the buyers of the csmc C grade should double think the price they are paying.........somebody is making a killing....
3500-4500 would be a good price for a new made Sterlingworth or maybe even an A grade.....but 20,000+ for a C grade...excuse me.....say 4500 for the base gun....2000wood upgrade....3500 for engraving/fancy checkering.....$10000

nuf said.... [

I couldn't agree more, but being the only gun manufacturer making the A H Fox, gouging is probably justified in CSMC's mind. I wonder too, what the number of sales would be if you removed the inflated prices and started the CE at $10k.

rapidfire

Concur with John Roberts & rapidfire

That said reference seller's price; the production costs are obviously a big part of the price charged to include the builder's overhead, but in the end it is the market that settles on actual value.

Doubleguns are a niche market and values for various guns are linked to much more than simply the quality and cost of the build or similar quality guns on the market.

While I wish I could buy a new made Fox CE at the manufacturer's cost, the reality is that wish is unrealistic.

The bottom line on a fancy gun's price is the resale value. I don't care how much Tony would charge me for a new Fox or Model 21. I just want to be able to sell it for a nice price if I choose to change horses.

Perhaps this is just spit balling but American gun makers can still make wooden stocks and they can still machine steel blocks into receivers (actions) and when the great American makers manufactured double guns some imported the barrels. Why can't that be done today? Perhaps I over estimate the abilities of CNC machinery but would the hand fitting required to attach a set of imported (Turkish perhaps) barrels, whether sxs or o/u add so much to an American made product that it couldn't compete? I guess so? The future will tell for certain if there is a market for a $4999. 870 American Classic. I don't think so. The New Fox, I think has to come in at around $2000. and I can't believe it can't be done. But I know nothing about profit in gun building.


ref: https://www.remington.com/shotguns/pump-action/model-870/model-870-american-classic

$2000 is a bit light, even for the much discussed Faux Fox. The launch edition RBL was trotted out at 2700 or theres about. If you paid upfront a good bit less. I think they are, (were), really nice guns at that price point. Stan disagrees! I do think we will pay for attractive and good handling guns, among other things. Savage may reconsider the choice of 3X wood on what is essentially a field grade gun. That might help them ease the price point somewhat. I would be interested in the gun at less than 3000. The lack of true A.H.Fox attributes is not troubling to me if, and this is a big if, the receiver is exact in its dimensions and the weight is reasonable. Other than the idea of it what exactly is it that is far superior about the original Fox? And if so why? Logical responses to this please!

Chief

My thinking is that the Turkish gun sales demonstrate a market for doubleguns not being met by American makers. The price range is $700. to $2000. for nicely embellished guns. Perhaps there is a market for "field grade" solid American gun among these buyers. I know I would be interested in having such a gun. I own several "american classics" and none have choke tubes and wood less than 90 years old. If Sterlingworth engraving and case colors would make it more profitable, very well. I guess I just want to see an American made every mans gun again. But I am perhaps unique in that I like very basic type guns like Beretta's Essential, just blue and wood.

Based on the 1926 Sterlingworth price of about $45. I extrapolated to get a 2017 price of about $1600. I admit this is not economist accuracy and certainly discounts retooling costs. But wouldn't that be something!?

If Tony sends this gun out at a promotional price, like he did the A-10, the RBL, and the Inverness, I will buy one. However,I suspect that Tony has little to do with the marketing of the new Fox.

Mechanically other than the lock-up and shaping of the frame what is unique about the original Fox action?

Eightbore, I think you are right that Tony is not marketing the gun directly, but making it in lots for Savage. The good news in that is Tony makes a decent gun so we do not have to fear a major quality control learning curve with the new manufacture if Savage was building it themselves.

Liverwort has summed up my thinking exactly. I'd like a well made field gun, something with little to no engraving, but nice polishing and blue. A boxlock with a 3" chambers, plain grained walnut well fitted, fixed chokes that I could specify. Recoil pad, chrome bores and enough weight so that the 3" shells don't beat me up for daring to consider them. Can that happen for under 2 grand? I don't know, but one comes out, I will beat a path to the closest fun shop that has one so that I can decide.

Mergus