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Forums10
Topics39,493
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Jul 28th, 2025
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Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 9,409 Likes: 4
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 9,409 Likes: 4 |
Too bad I lived to see it.
Don't ever hold one in your hands... The twelve gauge versions are nothing special, but the Sweet 16 is sweet indeed. It's only a little uglier than the original steel receiver ones. If one wants prettier version of original one with same mechanism but more advanced alloy action there is the legendary and well-proven since ca. 1948 Franchi 48AL. Very, very nice upland shotgun.
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Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 9,409 Likes: 4
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 9,409 Likes: 4 |
Shotgunjones,
It echoes my experience. All except one of my friends and acquaintances who own "best" guns hunt with Italian autos.
Lot of successful folks use Italian semi-autos. Not long ago distinguished gentleman brought in old Browning 0/U two barrel set to trade for new ancy Benelli with engraved receiver and wood stock. A member from ShotgunWorld ended up buying the Browning.
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Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 2,814 Likes: 2
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 2,814 Likes: 2 |
I love my doubles, even tho I have only kept a couple, BUT (shame on me) if I only had ONE gun it would be a Benelli SBE. I bought one of the very early ones and shot it hard for many years. Sold it when I left the country...
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Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 7,709 Likes: 346
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 7,709 Likes: 346 |
I guess we could compare OU vs sxs to aluminum vs wooden bats. Aluminum has a bunch of advantages . . . but they still use wood in MLB. I expect part tradition, and part the fact that the top pros are willing to challenge themselves with an "inferior" piece of equipment....
....In the same way, a lot of OU's now being used in driven shooting in the UK.... I don't know if it's a good comparison, but in a way, I think it is exactly how equipment is chosen at the highest level. I think the top pros in baseball would gladly use anything that gave them an advantage and are constantly caught for cheating, but they are constrained by a rule book NOT a willingness to challenge themselves. Where top shotgunners are free to choose a competitive edge, they do so. Driven shooting? That may be the most exclusive and expensive shotgun activity. It may be more about desires and appearances, maybe not the best place to justify one configuration over another.
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Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 9,409 Likes: 4
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 9,409 Likes: 4 |
I read in The Field or Shooting Gazette that those on "driven game circuit" (wealthy shooters hopping around Great Britain from one estate to another) used Perazzi 0/U guns. Not wanting to give all the business to Italians. DMB designed 8lb 0/U with long 30" or 32" barrels. It is bored to accept paper cased cartridge with felt wad and old style chilled shot. Well known English shooting instructor established British Vintagers on US Model indicating that perhaps SxS shotguns are even less popular in British game fields than they are in the USA.
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 1,281 Likes: 12
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 1,281 Likes: 12 |
No reason one can't get very nice target type SxS...... SxS competition type shotgun.... Looks very impressive. The only place I seen pics of one in USA was at Fieldsport LTD site. Doesn't look like anything special to me at all. I suspect that close to no one here even knows what a current O/U competition gun looks like. A final note on Perazzi - as I understand it Perazzi makes 2K-3K guns a year and the US comprises barely double digit % of that. I freely admit that their operation in SoCal makes that hard to believe but ............... AFAIK and FWIW Having owned and shot both SxS and O/U guns, inept and limited as I am I find the difference to be for me only in the ergonomic functionality of the particular gun. I have seen only one SxS that had been seemingly optimized ergonomically for one person and that was sorta strange but I suppose he liked it. Clearly if functionality is to be gained then some meaningless concept of antique aesthetics cannot be imposed on it. I certainly have some affection for my Perazzis but at the same time I am unable to discern any intrinsic functional superiority in O/U's in general. shoot what you like - - think what you like - - makes no dif to me
Dr.WtS
Mysteries of the Cosmos Unlocked
available by subscription
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Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 7,709 Likes: 346
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 7,709 Likes: 346 |
....I find the difference to be for me only in the ergonomic functionality of the particular gun. I have seen only one SxS that had been seemingly optimized ergonomically for one person and that was sorta strange but I suppose he liked it. Clearly if functionality is to be gained then some meaningless concept of antique aesthetics cannot be imposed on it.... This is such a s....d statement that I'd more than tend to agree. Did it look like the unseen current O/U comp. gun with the barrels tipped ninety degrees?
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Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 2,524 Likes: 84
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 2,524 Likes: 84 |
Nope. I saw it. It was more like 270 degrees.
___________________________
How's that for s....d (?) (.)
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Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 6,674 Likes: 581
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 6,674 Likes: 581 |
All this talk about ways to get the public to move toward S x Ss by having top shooters start using them, or having some TV personalities shoot them, is ignoring the obvious. Top clays shooters will never abandon the O/U for the S x S because ......... their scores will go down. It's a fact. You can deny it all you want, but if you abandon emotion and sentimentality, the O/U wins on points.
I've been a competitive sporting clays shooter for so many years I am beginning to have a problem remembering when I started. I grew up shooting a S x S, so there's no shortage of sentimental attachment to them, for me. I hunt with them most of the time, and shoot them well enough at game that I don't need to switch to something a hair better. I love competing against other S x Ss with mine, and do so in S x S events. I have several that are suited to the sporting game, probably the best suited is the 30" BSS. But, I cannot shoot as high a score with it as I can my MX8 Perazzi. I tried, Lord knows I did. I wanted to be the man who took a S x S and beat the rest with their O/U guns. But I can't, and most others can't, either.
Get out of denial and admit what the rest of the world knows. The O/U is the king of the sporting, and most of the other, clays games. Because it works better for them. It is much easier to shoot in the 90s on a tough sporting course with a good O/U than it is with a good S x S. I know what many will holler ....... "Well, that's just because nobody builds a specialty S x S for sporting clays." Hogwash, anybody can put one together that wants to badly enough, and there are some out there that are already pretty specialized for target work. If you had rather shoot a good round of clays with a S x S than shoot a great score with an O/U I've got no beef with you. My hat's off to you actually. But don't try to pee on my leg and tell me it's raining, that a S x S can go head to head with an O/U and come out on top. It may once in a blue moon, but the odds are stacked against it.
The handwriting's on the wall ...... read it and weep. Beretta and the rest of the brilliant Italian makers read it, and acted on it. And ...... they're doing quite well and positioned for the future. My hat's off to them.
Just because you'd rather live in the past does not make it good business.
SRH Stan, I forgot to qualify my comments a tad. First, I was basing it on the idea some were putting forth here that there is no real disadvantage to using a SxS. That the value of the single sighting plane is exaggerated and the dominance of O/U has more to do with inertia....that's the action everyone uses because that's what everyone uses so that is the type that gets tweaked for competition. And second, as long as the competitive disadvantage isn't too great, the top guys will switch if the money makes it worth while. Case in point. In the 1970's, every single top golfer in the world used forged irons. All the PGA, all club professionals, all top amateurs. Everyone. On the PGA Tour, it was common knowledge that the very best forged irons were made by a smallish maker called Ram Golf. Estimates range as high as 70% of all Tour players used Ram irons, even those who were signed to other, bigger companies like Spalding, Titlist, Hogan, Wilson etc. They would carry the bag and tape over the name on the club. Around that time, cast iron heads started to become popular with higher handicap players because, although you lost "feel", the clubs heads were more forgiving to mis-hit shots. The pros would go on and on about how they would never give up their forged clubs because at their level of play, they needed the "feel". Until they didn't. Until the amount of money and the demands of the marketing ends of things insisted they play with cast clubs because that's what the companies wanted to sell. You can make a cast head way easier and cheaper than grinding to shape a forging. Pros can and will use the best equipment they can that also makes them the most money. Then you will likely find that the sliver of advantage afforded by a certain technology is not that critical to their success. Tiger Woods was going to be the dominant player for 15 years no matter what club he played with. The same is likely true with competitive shot-gunners. Only difference is there is not the same motivation for the companies to change the status quo.
The world cries out for such: he is needed & needed badly- the man who can carry a message to Garcia
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Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 593
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 593 |
My dad says that "steel feels"
So don't go hurting the feelings of your guns by how you speak of them. Kick the dog, so to speak.
In this vein, a hand made, hand fitted & finished gun feels & even smells to me better than a 1 year old CNC nickel plated chrome bore wonder with a synthetic stock.
If it is to sit in the gun kennel & stroke one of the pets, then the English double reciprocates more love to me.
When it is as inclement outside as at the moment, the Turkish gun is still willing to hunt. I love him for that.
The Beretta of my youth has a new home & he used to do all things but I do not pine for him.
I feel more of an affinity for old Brit doubles, & you can't argue with feelings.
Your head can work over & rationalise anything, but your heart tells you the truth.
O.M
Colonial Anglophile.
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