doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Information on Gunmaker Rivolier Pere et Fils

No way to know, treblig . . . but I'd bet against it. And that's not a criticism of the gun in question. Simply reflects the reality that Rivolier probably did not have in-house expertise in all the various specialties involved in the start to finish production of a side by side. And, as I suggested earlier, no way the wood on that gun is original. But that's not a criticism either, because it does appear to be well-executed. The wood and the metal simply don't match. It'd be like a high school girl wearing an expensive prom dress and flip-flops to the dance.

I look up for you. The piece was made into a shotgun in 1930s at rue Villedieu 2 Saint Etienne France by company named Rivollier listed as a gunmaking business. The bad news is there were no bicycles made there. The bicycles were made at large MFAC factory in Saint Etienne. MFAC stands for Manufacture Francaise d'Armes et Cycles.

Jagermeister, did anyone here say that RPF was actually producing bicycles at that particular location? There are numerous sources documenting that RPF was indeed a manufacturer of bicycles and derailleurs for bicycles. Actually, there seems to be a lot more information on their bicycle manufacturing than about their gun manufacturing. And please tell us how you know the gun in question here was built in the 1930's???

Here's a short excerpt from one of many sources:

"Born in 1885, Albert Raimond spent the early years of the 20th century working for Rivolier P�re et Fils (RPF) a manufacturer of quality sporting guns in St-�tienne. In 1909 the young Albert persuaded RPF to start manufacturing bicycles, and he was put in charge of this operation. At this time, many companies manufactured both bicycles and guns as they used similar technology (high strength and hardened steels), required similar levels of precision engineering and provided usefully diversified demand (sporting rifles sold in winter, bicycles in summer, military rifles were subject to the whims of government, bicycles were bought by consumers etc...).


From around 1909 to 1911, Joanny Panel also worked as a clerk at RPF, and Raimond became aware of Panel�s developing plans for the Le Chemineau derailleur. Possibly through Panel, Raimond also became aware of Paul de Vivie�s experiments. Like Panel, Albert Raimond became a friend of Paul de Vivie and a part of the small group of French cyclists, known as �L��cole Stephanoise� (�The St �tienne School�), who were actively involved in experimenting with derailleurs to facilitate cycle touring.


In 1911, Joanny Panel left RPF and set up his own company manufacturing Le Chemineau bicycles and derailleurs. He made a deal with Albert Raimond to sell his derailleurs to RPF to fit on some of their bicycles. Needless to say, Joanny Panel was not a reliable supplier and Albert Raimond�s frustrations led him to explore alternative avenues."

Here's a link to the whole article... which also documents that they apparently manufactured rifles too:

http://www.disraeligears.co.uk/Site/Cyclo_derailleurs_page_2.html

Your regurgitation research is as careless as your bullshit stories about the number of guns you actually own Jagermeister. If you're going to lie about what you have, you need to be more careful about keeping those stories straight. Too late to fix it now, as everyone with even half a brain knows that you are full of shit. The good news is that means you are probably still fooling Ed and Gladys Kravitz. Could you please tell us all why you post so frequently here when you do not even own any double guns? You seem like one of those sad, pathetic souls who have Harley Davidson tattoos, tee-shirts, belt buckles, leather jackets, etc., but do not even own a motorcycle.

Keith, anything additional about their involvement in shotguns?

There's got to be something.

Thanks Larry. Possibly sourced barrels? From Belgium possibly? Keith mentioned the differences in two Rivolier actions in his excellent posts, possible built the rest of the gun other than the barrels?

Unfortunately Treblig, there is not a great deal of information on their gun making activities considering the length of time they existed as a manufacturing concern. I'd guess those inconvenient invasions by the Germans may have put a damper on gun making activities. And much of what is available is entirely in French. I think it was probably incorrect of Larry to make the pronouncement that they likely did not build the entire guns. On the other hand, I suppose the same could be said of any large and respected manufacturer who outsourced so much as a spring, screw, or buttplate. A lot of very small, and even one man operations, have managed to build guns.

Thanks Keith. We have to get more people on this board that speak French. Their doubles are just to damn good to continue on with these dead ends.

Revoliers were prominent Stephenoise (St. Etienne) and served the community in many fashions for 120 years. They made Bicycles beginning in 1909. Here is the first catalog mentioning cycles and a advertisement poster featuring their bike logo. It doesn't take a lot to make a bike - there are artisanal shops all over Italy now. You need tubing etc. Let me ask whether Trek is a bike manufacture when they advertise Shimano derailers, etc. Of course they are.





As for manufacturing guns, here is the cover of a 1911 catalogue. There is a factory on the front cover. Either that's a lie or they had significant manufacturing facilities in St. Etienne.



And I agree with Larry about the stock.

Background on the naming of Rue Jean-Baptiste Rivolier in St. Etienne:



I'll translate the entry

Date de d�nomination : 25.11.1921, ancienne partie de la rue Chapelon.
Fils de Laurent Rivolier, armurier et de Louise Jos�phine Faure, n� � Saint-�tienne le 13 juillet 1834 (consulter le registre), mort dans cette m�me ville le 15 mars 1917.
Le 16/12/1857 � Saint-�tienne, il �pouse Fran�oise M�lanie Oudet, ling�re (30.08.1836 - 26.10.1899).


Date Street named: 28 Nov 1921 - formerly a section of Rue Chapeion.

Son of Laurent Rivolier, gun maker (armorer) and of Louis Josephine Faure, born in Saint-Etienne 13 July 1834, died in the same house the 15 March 1917. On 16 Dec 1857 he married Francoise Melanie Qudet in Saint-Etienne) (Born 20 Aug 1836, died 26 Oct 1899).

L'entreprise de fabrication d'armes a �t� cr��e en 1830. Jean-Baptiste va prendre la suite de son p�re. Il est par ailleurs membre de la Chambre de commerce et administrateur du banc d'�preuve.

The arms factory had been created in 1830. Jean-Baptist followed in the footsteps of his father. In addition he was a member of the Chamber of Commerce and Administrator of the Proof House.

Ses successeurs, qui fabriqueront �galement des cycles de 1909 � 1950, seront, ses fils, Alexis (06.12.1862 - 10.02.1938), Officier de la L�gion d'honneur en 1932, Inspecteur d�partemental de l'enseignement technique et Fran�ois Alexis dit Francisque (14.01.1872 - 10.08.1949) ainsi que le fils de ce dernier, Alexis Antonin Joseph (10.05.1903 - 25.06.1987) qui prendra la pr�sidence de la Chambre de commerce de 1971 � 1979.

His successors who also made cycles from 1909 to 1950 were his sons Alexis (01 Dec 1862 - 10 Feb 1938), Officer of the Legion of Honor in 1931, Departmental Inspector for Technical Education and Francois Alexis aka Francisque (14 Jan 1872 - 10 Aug 1949). Also his grandson Alexis Antoinin Joseph (10 May 1903 - 25 Jun 1987), who was President of the Chamber of Commerce from 1971 - 1979.



This family was not a bunch of small entrepreneurs. They were manufacturers of note for 120 years.

A few years ago I handled a very nice Peugeot double at a gunshow. Evidently they made them up until WWII. It seems bicycles and guns were linked in many french companies.

Regards
Ken