doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Difference between Beretta S2 and SO2

Hello.
I am new to this forum, and I am a Dane, so please bear with me, according the language! Anyway, I hope you get the meaning.
I have been using a lovley beretta S2 for most hunting for the last 2 years. The gun was made in 1940, and when I got it, it was almost unfired and "mint" It is truley a nice gun. Now my son just got one. He bought it in England, and after some monthts it finally got home to us in Denmark last week. It was made in 1953, and also a great gun. Both guns are with double triggers and straight stocks. But now we are wondering: What is the difference between the S2 and the SO2...? We have triede to find the answer by asking gunsmithts here in Denmark, but they dont really know. The guns have been sold in so small numbers here i our country. Does anybody know here on this board. I think i can remember and old thread here in this forum about the ols sidelocks from Beretta, but i can't find it.

Best regards, Ulrik

ULG,
Welcome to the forum, and enjoy those lovely guns! I'm sure someone with extensive Beretta experience will be along soon to help out.
Karl

Both S and SO stand for vertical gun in Italian. What is significant is the number which follows. I would say 'S0' would indicate newer naming scheme meaning newer therefore more expensive to buy firearm. From what I have seen the higher the number the more "hand touching" involved in the final product. High number means mucho hecho a mano. I understand why there is mucho confusion PB is to Italy what W.W. Greener was to England.

Ulrik,

Welcome to the board! I have not seen anything definitive on the difference between a Beretta S or SO guns. Look at the frame marking on your sons 1953 gun. Is it marked S-2 or SO-2?

I have the old pdf file from 2004, but I don't know how to post it to the site. The information isn't all correct in the post. From the late '30s to the '90s, the main difference in the guns is Beretta upgrading the lock design. A gun from 1940 and 1953 should have the 7-pin design.

Also, you may know Beretta made different models of the S or SO:

S1
S2
S3
S3 EL (in the states, Garcia imported them, in the late '60s and early '70s, as SO4s)
S3 EELL (in the states, Garcia imported them,in the late '60s and early '70s, as SO5s)
SO4 (replaced by the SO5 from Beretta in the late '80s)
SO6 (replaced the S3, S3EL, S3EELL in the late '80s)
SO9
SO10

Ken

Thank you for your " Welcomes"
yes , the Locks on our guns are 7 pins, like the old H&H patent i guess. On both of the guns the triggerguard are marked "S2"
On my gun the barrels are german made, and on the new (!) gun, from '53 they are made in Italy. I have been shooting English S/S ( both 12 and 20 bores) before i got the old Italian gun, but I must confess, that the S2 is a nice gun to handle. It seemes to be very well build!

The Beretta guns from this timeframe should be around 7 lbs. A nice gamegun weight compared to the ones they build today. Also, it is interesting your 1940 gun have german barrels.

Ken

Yes, i is a bit odd, that the barrels are german made. They are marked: " Prima Gewehr Lauf Stahl Fried Krupp Essen" Meaning something like " Superior barrel steel" and it is made in the big German steelcity of Essen. In the following years the dident make a lot of steel for civil use in Essen, i guess! Accutaly,I have seen a Purdey sle gun, with german barrels too. They should be original, and the numbers were matching.
About the weight of the guns. Mine is 6,8 lbs, and my son's is 7 lbs,as KDGJ mentioned. And I agree, the gamegun must not be too heavey. Before I got the beretta i shot a Webley & Scott 20 bore,it is light! 5 lbs 9,6 oz ( im not used to lbs, we use kilos and grammes, and meters and centimeters here) but I think it is right, 2541 grammes. But the extra weight in the beretta is no problem, it handles so well.

ULG,
That little bit of extra weight should make it pretty good for clays as well.
Karl

A friend had an S3 gun from the European market which was an O/U with a double Kirsten crossbolt design. Until I saw that gun, I never saw a Beretta with that design

Yes,it's true. These guns have a kind of "Kersten" Action. Not like on the modern and the boxlock models, they have these wellknown pins,goeing in, in the lugs. But also more new models have this kind of action. On page 138 in R.L.Wilsons book " The World of Beretta" there is a description of the SO5 (1997) it also have the unusual Kersten style action. And it also have German barrels! They are " Cold-forged Boehler Antinit steel" This kind of steel is extremeley corrosion resistant.
As far as i can understand the description in the book, the reason why this kind of cross bolt type of locking system is chosen for this (clay)gun is simply for strengh.
I'm not sure when the actin changes to the modern type, I'm pretty sure that f.ex the SO10 has the kind of action with the locking pins in the lugs.

The gun I mentioned was shot a lot as a Springer field trial gun,and never malfunctioned. We shot heavy loads - typically 1 1/4 oz high brass. The gun was not heavy, but withstood the punishment to which it was subjected

The SO5s still use the locking bolt. The SO10 went to the lumps similar to the 68x, and DT10 models.
Ken

I had a bunch of old Beretta catalogs, and also owned an S3EL engraved by A.Baglioni for a while. From what I remember the designation S. followed by a number was the early post war designation, it was succeded by the SO designation.

Early S models have locks with a screwed down lock bridle. Later models have the bridle in one piece with the lock plate. I had asked the late Giovanni Metelli, chief of the custom shop, about this and his opinion was that each newer generation of the S and SO series was an improvement on the previous one.

When I had my S3 EL I had the chance to put it next to a Woodward OU, and thought that the Beretta was the neater and mechanically better design. Looked prettier too, but that is subjective.

German barrels on early post war Italian guns are common. Probably the German firms were not permitted to produce whole guns in the post war years and supplied unfinished barrels to other makers. However, most S and SOs I have examined had Boehler Antinit barrels.

I have never seen much correlation between the various changes/evolution that has happened and the model numbers. Boehler Antinit steel seems to be common until quite recent times and has a reputation for being excellent for corrosion resistance.
I have seen a number of variations of the pin placement on the locks, so clearly there have been various changes there.
You are lucky to have double triggers and straight hand stocks. Most guns here in the UK have single triggers with a very bulky 'pistol grip'.
SO5 was a plainly finished competition gun.
I have an SO6, which is a game gun, and has quite light restrained scroll engraving, whereas the SO6 EELL has much more elaborate engraving available in game scene and scroll variants as well as a 'custom' option.
SO9, SO10 have different closure/locking as has been noted in the thread. In the UK, SO9 and SO10 were only available in 20 bore for a while - and I had heard, though not sure if this is correct, that manufacture of SO9 was outsourced to Abiattico and Salvinelli.
All of the SO series have become eye-wateringly expensive as new guns in recent years. (They were never cheap, but seem to have increased more than other Beretta models in the last few years)

Correct...

Also correct...and unlike Beretta made guns they have their share of issues.