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Joined: Feb 2002
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tut Offline OP
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Are the 20 and 16 built on the same frame on the SXS's? Question 2, would the 16 gauge be built on the 12 gauge frame instead?

PS. I'd heard before the 16 gauges were built on their own size frame, but I can't find evidence of it in any of my notes. Thanks


foxes rule
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I have a Model 119 sidelock in 16 gauge and it is on a 16 gauge frame. I have two 20 gauge boxlocks and for sure they are on 20 gauge frames. I do have an older export 12 gauge sidelock with extractors and it is definitely a larger frame than the 16 gauge.

On guns built to a price point for a particular importer, your mileage may vary but one of my 20's and the 16 were made for me and imported through Aspen Outfitting, and they are on scaled frames appropriate to their gauge.

Maybe Wieland's book has something in writing on this.

Bruce

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Aspen claimed their Uggies were all on scaled frames. You might call them or Lion Country Supply.

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I can't speak for the 16 but I have Lion Country Supply Upland Classic Grade II's in 28 and .410 - the .410 frame is noticeably smaller.

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Remember that these are artisanal shotguns. The frames will be the size (and shape) that the maker thinks is best for the gauge and the purpose for which the gun is being made.

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tut Offline OP
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Originally Posted By: Kyrie
Remember that these are artisanal shotguns. The frames will be the size (and shape) that the maker thinks is best for the gauge and the purpose for which the gun is being made.


Geez do I feel stupid I had to look up artisanal. I thought it was related to a well. We have a lot of wells down south it seems.


foxes rule
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Originally Posted By: tut
Geez do I feel stupid I had to look up artisanal. I thought it was related to a well. We have a lot of wells down south it seems.


Spanish shotguns can be a deep subject [insert groan here]

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Boxlock
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While there may be some exceptions, Ugartechea used individually sized frames for all their gauges. I have one each, Grade II Upland Classic, 28, 20 & 16. Each is on it's own frame. While at Lion Country I did handle a few 12's, and they were larger than the 16. (One of the reasons I went with the 16.) Hope that helps.

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Great deals on Spanish guns all over the internet. A sidelock for right around a thousands dollars built on its own scaled frame. Overall weight per gauge is dead on and perfect for upland hunting.

But they sit, unsold, auction after auction.

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gjw Offline
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Originally Posted By: treblig1958
Great deals on Spanish guns all over the internet. A sidelock for right around a thousands dollars built on its own scaled frame. Overall weight per gauge is dead on and perfect for upland hunting.

But they sit, unsold, auction after auction.


Okay, the reason why some of these 1k guns are still on the market is they are overpriced junk. Just because it's a SL does not mean it's a best gun or even close. I hate to say it, as this has been said in the past, not all Spanish guns are these wonderful "Artisanal" works of art as some consistently call them . Artisanal means:"pertaining to or noting a high-quality or distinctive product made in small quantities, usually by hand or using traditional methods". Your low end Spanish guns hardly comes close to this definition. One can look at Zabala as an example, when you make 3,000 or so guns a year, not every one is "hand crafted" most were mass produced and machine made. A lot of these lower end guns look great on the outside, but the guts can be a horror story. As I've said before, I own some very nice high end Spanish guns and love them, but I've also owned a few dogs over the years. You can't paint all Spanish guns with the same "artisanal" brush.

As to frame size, depends on the maker as said, but also what the costs are to produce. Look at some of the Zabala 28ga/.410 guns, all they are is 28g/.410 bbls slapped on a 20ga frame. However, your better makers will produce gauge specific frames. All depends upon the gun and the maker. There is no one solid answer for this question.

Tut,to answer your question. Ugartechea does make scaled framed guns, even their low end models.

Best,

Greg



Gregory J. Westberg
MSG, USA
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