doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Thoughts on an action going off face

Well, I have shot a BSS into an off face condition. I have said many times here that this is my go to "SXS sporting clays" and duck gun. I make no bones about having used 3" steel shot loads in it for ducks, for about 10-11 years, now. Though the clays usage has been almost all 1 oz. loads, at moderate velocities, the duck loads have been mostly 1 1/4 oz. loads, also at moderate velocities, none of this hyper-velocity stuff.

Last Sunday I closed the dove season out with the BSS and, when reassembling it after cleaning, I thought I felt movement after the barrels were put onto the receiver, but before snapping on the forend. Yes, it was definitely there, from side to side, not up and down. After snapping on the forend, there was no discernible movement at all. Next, I held it up between my eyes and a strong light source and could see no light whatsoever between the left barrel and the breech face. But ......... I could see light clearly on the right side, a uniform sliver of light from top to bottom.

After a few days of considering this, I have a few thoughts, and some questions. First some observations. I bought this gun about 10-11 years ago online from a well known (to us) dealer. His identity is absolutely unimportant to this discussion, IMO. Though there was a problem when I began to use the gun it was unrelated to this issue. However, I have no way of knowing how much the gun was shot before I bought it or how well it was kept clean and lubricated, but the overall appearance was that it had not been used a tremendous amount. It was on face, and tight when I began shooting it. It has digested a few thousand target loads, and not over a flat of duck loads, probably considerably less than a flat. I have always kept the hook and hinge pin clean and lubed with grease. I have checked the right barrel with shim stock, and it is four thousandths off. I am really surprised, and disappointed. I know this did not occur in one shooting, but I really was surprised to find the movement and the off face condition.

Now for a few questions. We all know that the right barrel of a side by side gets shot the most, in the vast majority of cases. With my BSS being a single, non-selector trigger the right barrel fires first all the time. If a second shot is not needed, as happens a great deal, the gun is reloaded and the right barrel gets the nod again next opportunity. I have always believed that more guns go off face from friction and wear on the hook and hinge pin than from shooting, but this does not seem to be the case here. Is it a certainty that the standing breech sprung rearward on the right side? Remember, no light visible on the left side, but clearly visible on the right. Next, how does a gunsmith properly put this condition back on face? I intend to make a decision on who will do the job, and send it off to get a new lease on life and be ready for the ducks this September.

Thoughts on the condition, what caused it, and whether or not this calls into question my long held belief that a BSS is pretty much "bullet-proof" are welcomed. Especially from those you who have first hand knowledge on making this exact repair to a double.

SRH

I think you have answered the most important question, already-you have no idea what kind of life the gun led before you got it.
What you have done is normal use, with good maintenence. Little chance for wear with the use you descripe.
That said, there is no knowing if the frame is sprung without some serious measuring-it could be uneven wear on one, or both ends of the hook allowing the shim into the right side only. I would bet the frame isn't sprung. Wear to the pin and lump have occured exactly as dictated by the design of the gun. The single, non selective trigger has chosen where the wear happens.
Have it fixed, and carry on. Blessed are those who get the opportunity to wear one out, and have life left to put it right and try to do it again.
I'll bet you can't wear it out again, however.

Hey, can I interest you in a design that has a zero % chance of coming off face?

Good luck.

Best,
Ted

You going to sent it to Art for a rebuild?

http://www.artsgunshop.com/

Thanks for the comments, Ted. It's hard for me to visualize wear on the hook and pin that would allow one barrel to be off face by .004" and the other not. I can only understand that in terms of the hook wearing on the right side only, the entire lug also wearing on the right side, and allowing the barrels to twist to the right at the breech, but you cannot see that visually. As to the offer (a Darne I assume?), I'll pass for now. But thanks. I think I'll have it rebuilt and try to prove you wrong and live long enough to do it again.


skeetx, that is the shop I am leaning in the direction of at this time. Thanks.

SRH

Stan,that's the right place to send it.

We have some gunsmiths here, and I hope they chime in. But my first thought would run along the same lines as Ted's. The gun has now had a bunch of use, and you've used the R barrel more than the L. Uneven wear on either the hinge pin or the lump. The BSS has a well-deserved reputation for strength, but it does not have a 3rd fastener. (And on well-made guns, those often aren't necessary.) But I'm thinking that your chances of uneven wear on one side might be greater because you don't have something like a Greener crossbolt or some kind of top hook or hidden 3rd fastener that engages the breach face.

But entirely possible some gunsmith will come along and tell me I'm all wet . . . in which case I will have learned something!

Give it hell, Stan. Seems the best course of action, after a proper repair.

Best,
Ted

Pretty good chance the right barrel was not well fit on day one. I've observed uneven actioning on a number of guns, some of them from very respected makers. A worn hook or stretched action would open tolerances on both barrels, I'd think.

Entirely possible, Joe. Good point. But to your second point ..... how would firing of the right barrel repetitively stretch the metal in the standing breech on the left side? I'm not convinced mine is stretched at all, just trying to understand what you mean.

SRH

I emailed Art and he already replied. Not what I was hoping for, tho'. He said he "doesn't work on B/SS guns anymore as the parts have dried up". Said, "they are very obsolete".

No problem. I have learned to never try to convince a craftsman to work on something he doesn't want to work on. I may call Jim Kelly in Darlington tomorrow and chat with him about it.

SRH

Have you talked to Midwest Gun Works? They specialize in Browning. They fixed my selective trigger which was causing doubling.