doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com necessary to case hardened an old hammer gun ?

You don't just drag a file across a nice looking action.
You pull the butt stock & get in the back, in some place not seen.
O.M

I "THINK" if you look at the process used in making & proving these guns they were actually proof fired prior to the hardening. It is doubtful the thin case actually gives much increase in the strength. What it does give is a lot of Wear Resistance, which of course is lost in its present state.

2-piper wouldn't being annealed and not rehardened give you more problems with the gun not staying on face? I always figured guns were hardened to make the parts stronger and the color was a very secondary outcome.

I am thinking this will most def. be a wall hanger, as it will not be safe to shoot. It is a very pretty gun with the bright silver looking action and sidelocks. As I said, BP proofs and very soft metal; I just put the file on the back side of receiver tang and moved it lightly - leaving marks. when I tried the same with a checkering tool, it stuck immediately in the metal. I will have a good learning experience inletting the stock and finishing the stock. Assembling the locks and action have already been very educational. Thanks guys for all your thoughts.

Jon;
There are only a few ways a gun can "Go OFF Face". If the standing breech bends or the frame itself stretches then of course this going to put it off safe,
The vast majority og guns I believe go off face through wear in the hinge joint & this is primarily a frictional wear & not the result of shooting. I would guess the hardness of the case would add just a bit to the strength of the action but do not have the equipment to test it. I fully agree the color was secondary in the case hardening process. I am not fully convinced though that adding strength was the primary reason either. Throughout industry, including gunmaking, Case hardening as virtually always been used when a hard wear resistant surface was needed along with a soft Tough Core. If for instance you take a part having a 1/8" thickness & put a .010" thick case on it then you have only hardened 8% of the metal.
I do not truly believe the annealed gun is per se "Unsafe, don't think its going to blow up or anything like that. It will be more subject to wear, for instance streaking down the breech face from contact with the extractors in closing etc.

If annealing made the hinge pin soft would that not wear much faster?

Jon;
I would assume this could accelerate the wear on the hinge pin a bit.
Note that I am not advocating annealing shotgun actions, am just doubtful this has turned it into a "Bomb". It would of course be doubly important to keep the hinge clean & lubricated. Also keep in mind the common practise is to use a piece of Soft mat'l coated with compound to "Wear" the harder mat'l. IF you let grit imbed you may well lap out the harder side rather than the softer side. If its just frictional wear from the two mat'ls rubbing together then the softer side will wear fastest.

I agree with 2-p and will add a point. The modulus of steel is fairly constant. That is to say, a piece of soft, low carbon steel and an equal piece of hard spring steel will stretch/deflect the same amount for a given load. If the load exceeds the elastic limit of the soft steel, it will be permanently deformed (the piece ruined). However, the hard steel will continue to stretch/deflect under increasing load until it exceeds its much higher elastic limit.

In the case of a thin case of hard steel, we could have the soft steel core yielded before the hard case. Would the hard case increase the load needed to ruin the soft core? Very, very little, if indeed, any at all.

The case is for wear resistance. It was not uncommon for guns to be sent out soft and fired for a season before engraving and hardening.

DDA

Very good information, Don. Thanks.

SRH

Don;
Thanks for the confirmation. I was certain enough to make the statements that I was not putting out False Info, but I simply do not have the expertise that you do.