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Apr 29th, 2024
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 11,395 Likes: 107
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 11,395 Likes: 107 |
Another reason weight may be more of a factor these days, in addition to hunters/shooters getting older as a group: what most of us do for a living. There are fewer and fewer of the "strong back/weak mind" jobs (as my dad described his, moving tons of steel around in a John Deere factory) than there used to be. Blue collar factory jobs, mining, farming . . . fewer and fewer people engaged in those professions. And in general, with more machines doing more of the work, even those jobs aren't as physical as they used to be. Let's face it: Comparing to our fathers, uncles, grandfathers etc . . . a lot of us are wimps!
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 9,438 Likes: 316
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 9,438 Likes: 316 |
The Boy's first gun of his own was a 16, and he used it for everything from quail to turkey to deer http://fwp.mt.gov/mtoutdoors/HTML/articles/2007/oldmanandtheboy.htmI couldn't find the quotation, but I think Ruark observed that a gentleman shot birds with a 20, but only a show-off used a .410.
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 13,206 Likes: 1179
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 13,206 Likes: 1179 |
I remember that story, Drew, from reading it many years ago. Especially the part about him pushing off the safety too soon and the old man taking the gun from him.
Thanks, SRH
May God bless America and those who defend her.
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Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 4,092 Likes: 486
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 4,092 Likes: 486 |
An old friend's dad was a quail guide in Emannuel County, Georgia (eastern central Georgia) as a young man in the 1930's. His clientele was from the north who rode the train south and stayed at Coleman's Lake, a resort of sorts on an oxbow of the Ogeechee River. He ran a string of dogs and always hunted with a 16. A successful businessman, once he got his M37 Ithaca in 16 gauge, that's all he ever used. Until he got too old to run his dogs, he always had a pair of older dogs, two younger and two pups, with the pups learning from the older pointers.
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 582
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 582 |
Not to put too fine a point on it, but I had always heard it called "Queen of the uplands", not queen of guns. A brief google search even had one writer calling the 20 "Queen of the uplands." I'm no wimp, and have made a living with my hands for 40 years. So call me Goldilocks, 'cuz the 20 feels too small, the 12 too big, but the 16 is just right- for most of my upland. I will still haul out the big gun for crane, waterfowl, and turkey.
Tolerance: the abolition of absolutes
Consistency is the currency of credibility
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Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 565
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 565 |
"I realized it offers nothing over a 20 gauge in today's loadings, even moreso when you factor in the 3" 20. Maybe 60 years ago, but not today."
Although the twenty can do what a sixteen can do in the uplands, a twenty can not do what a sixteen can do in the duck or goose blind...ergo the sixteen has one over the twenty in my humble opinion. Ergo making the sixteen an 'all-around' great gun.
I've tried a twenty waterfowling....not a pretty sight.
If I could only have ONE gun (upland, waterfowl, deer with slugs, turkey), a sixteen would be the one.
Last edited by dal; 01/10/17 10:34 PM.
Life is too short to have a 'hate on' for so many things or people. Isn't it?
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 13,206 Likes: 1179
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 13,206 Likes: 1179 |
You need to be more specific about the 20 and waterfowling. Teal are waterfowl, and the 20 is plenty gun for teal. Blanket statements like that are misleading at best.
SRH
May God bless America and those who defend her.
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Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 11,359 Likes: 399
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 11,359 Likes: 399 |
Gil's photo of his French 16 today and, surprising to me, numerous mentions of the 16 lately on the board has me wondering if there's renewed interest in 16 gauges and why if there is. Geez King, if you had been paying attention to the intended subject matter here instead of posting so much of your anti-gun, anti-NRA, and anti-2nd Amendment rhetoric and support for anti-gun politicians here, perhaps you could see that interest in 16 gauge doubles has been steady and consistent for many years: Ed, historically the individual "right" to bear arms is relatively new. I believe John Ashcroft in 2002 became the first federal attorney-general to proclaim that individuals should be able to own guns. The Supreme Court in 2008 overturned all mainstream legal and historical scholarship by ruling that there is an individual right to own firearms although with some limits. Obama said it again last week.
I believe that during the previous 218 years the Second meant what it said: firearms shall be held by "the People"---a collective and not individual right---insofar they are in the service of "a well-regulated militia." Was an individual right even mentioned at the Constitutional Convention or in the House when it ratified the Amendment or when debated in state legislatures? I don't think so. But considering your past history here, this feigned interest in the 16 gauge was rather predictable because you have pretended to be a gun guy numerous times in the past whenever a lot of people began to notice your real agenda here. If you were at all serious about doubles, you would have noted the strong and steady demand for smaller bore doubles by many upland game hunters. You would also notice the premium the 16 gauge guns get on the open market despite the more limited ammunition availability and choices. You and your little brother Larry would also understand that choosing a 16 or smaller bore shotgun is more often simply a choice of using a gun that intentionally handicaps oneself to make hunting and shooting even more sporting. I have one hunting buddy who looks down his nose at me when I bring a 16 gauge for grouse, because he uses a .410 double almost exclusively. I doubt if he'd even hunt with me if I brought a 12, or heaven forbid, my light 10 gauge Syracuse Lefever. And if you were truly interested in vintage doubles, you certainly wouldn't be making arguments in favor of lead ammunition bans that would place a much greater damper on all vintage doubles and especially the 16 gauge. Here's a quick and concise summation of many of your anti-lead ammunition diatribes: A couple days ago, you accused me of being malicious in another thread. I wasn't able to respond in a timely manner because I just went without internet access for a couple days while flintlock deer hunting. I can understand why you might say that I am malicious when I replay your own words and give my opinion of your motives and veracity. But don't you think that staunch support for an extreme anti-gunner like Barack Obama like these statements are malicious and trolling when posted on a firearms related forum??? Apparently not: It's hardly mean-spirited to note that I'm an Obama supporter. I'm proud of it, apparent here as long as he's been around. He's anti-gun but has kept his legislative gun in his holster to position his party for '16. C'mon, mc, I'm just like you, admiring some presidents, less so others, just as I do our prime ministers. Some members are tired of my praising Obama as one who will go down in history as one of the best. What's malicious in that? Just an opinion on an international board, no better than yours. I guess I could use the words of old colonel and surmise that your intentions here are "specious" at best. In other words, misleading, deceptive, false, spurious, or fallacious. He seems to think that referring to statements by you as "specious" is preferable to calling you dishonest. That's funny. He also apparently is too dense to understand sarcasm, so I've made a mental note to avoid it with him in the future. Specious... hahahaha.... it does have a nice ring to it.... almost like pathological prevaricator, don't you think?
A true sign of mental illness is any gun owner who would vote for an Anti-Gunner like Joe Biden.
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Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 2,026 Likes: 51
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 2,026 Likes: 51 |
Wow, an actual discussion about guns without politics. I love it. You spoke too soon, Some cannot exercise self control when it comes to staying away from politics and subject diversion of threads. Gil's photo of his French 16 today and, surprising to me, numerous mentions of the 16 lately on the board has me wondering if there's renewed interest in 16 gauges and why if there is. Geez King, if you had been paying attention to the intended subject matter here instead of posting so much of your anti-gun, anti-NRA, and anti-2nd Amendment rhetoric and support for anti-gun politicians here, perhaps you could see that interest in 16 gauge doubles has been steady and consistent for many years: Ed, historically the individual "right" to bear arms is relatively new. I believe John Ashcroft in 2002 became the first federal attorney-general to proclaim that individuals should be able to own guns. The Supreme Court in 2008 overturned all mainstream legal and historical scholarship by ruling that there is an individual right to own firearms although with some limits. Obama said it again last week.
I believe that during the previous 218 years the Second meant what it said: firearms shall be held by "the People"---a collective and not individual right---insofar they are in the service of "a well-regulated militia." Was an individual right even mentioned at the Constitutional Convention or in the House when it ratified the Amendment or when debated in state legislatures? I don't think so. But considering your past history here, this feigned interest in the 16 gauge was rather predictable because you have pretended to be a gun guy numerous times in the past whenever a lot of people began to notice your real agenda here. If you were at all serious about doubles, you would have noted the strong and steady demand for smaller bore doubles by many upland game hunters. You would also notice the premium the 16 gauge guns get on the open market despite the more limited ammunition availability and choices. You and your little brother Larry would also understand that choosing a 16 or smaller bore shotgun is more often simply a choice of using a gun that intentionally handicaps oneself to make hunting and shooting even more sporting. I have one hunting buddy who looks down his nose at me when I bring a 16 gauge for grouse, because he uses a .410 double almost exclusively. I doubt if he'd even hunt with me if I brought a 12, or heaven forbid, my light 10 gauge Syracuse Lefever. And if you were truly interested in vintage doubles, you certainly wouldn't be making arguments in favor of lead ammunition bans that would place a much greater damper on all vintage doubles and especially the 16 gauge. Here's a quick and concise summation of many of your anti-lead ammunition diatribes: A couple days ago, you accused me of being malicious in another thread. I wasn't able to respond in a timely manner because I just went without internet access for a couple days while flintlock deer hunting. I can understand why you might say that I am malicious when I replay your own words and give my opinion of your motives and veracity. But don't you think that staunch support for an extreme anti-gunner like Barack Obama like these statements are malicious and trolling when posted on a firearms related forum??? Apparently not: It's hardly mean-spirited to note that I'm an Obama supporter. I'm proud of it, apparent here as long as he's been around. He's anti-gun but has kept his legislative gun in his holster to position his party for '16. C'mon, mc, I'm just like you, admiring some presidents, less so others, just as I do our prime ministers. Some members are tired of my praising Obama as one who will go down in history as one of the best. What's malicious in that? Just an opinion on an international board, no better than yours. I guess I could use the words of old colonel and surmise that your intentions here are "specious" at best. In other words, misleading, deceptive, false, spurious, or fallacious. He seems to think that referring to statements by you as "specious" is preferable to calling you dishonest. That's funny. He also apparently is too dense to understand sarcasm, so I've made a mental note to avoid it with him in the future. Specious... hahahaha.... it does have a nice ring to it.... almost like pathological prevaricator, don't you think?
Michael Dittamo
Topeka, KS
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Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 9,350
Sidelock
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OP
Sidelock
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 9,350 |
Agree your opinion of 20 and water fowling, Stan. I had a bad morning 30 years ago on ducks and didn't take my 20 to the blind for 10 years. I wouldn't think twice now about taking it (SKB o/u 3-inch), including on geese, because I wait until they bow their wings and their feet come out. The 20 is a waterfowling specialist's gun as the .410 in all categories.
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