doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Fractional marking on Water Table

I googled it but must be using the wrong phrase.

What would be the significance of a fraction marking on the water table of a circa 1900 Westley 12ga, Damascus barrels with a 15 over a 1 (Or maybe it's a 13, cant tell from the pics)

How could I tell if the gun was originally a 2 3/4" gun?
It was re-proofed for Nitro 850bar in the 54-89 years, would it have been opened up at that point? Or just re proofed Nitro?
(I would send off to Westley for the factory records later that would show this- but for now just doing preliminary research on the particular gun)

Here's a link if that will help.
Thanks all!

http://www.schwandtclassicarms.com/

1900 means it could have been originally proofed for black or Nitro and for that I would need to see the proof marks to be sure. In this period if nitro it usually had the shot weight plus the word 'MAX' . I would guess it originally had 2 1/2" chambers as the re-proof was at 850 bars and will have the 65mm. mark. If it had been 2 3/4" chambered then they would have re-proofed it at 70mm. length automatically. If in bars it would have been re-proofed post 1989; the 1954 rules of proof had the chamber length in inches and pressure in Ton per sq. in. Factory records won't probably tell you much other than when it was made. If you have the serial number I can date it to the year for you.

Most likely it would have been 13 over 1 and could have been opened out to remove any pitting prior to re-proof and should now have the new bore diameter stamped on the barrel flats. It could have been 15 over 1 and still be chambered 12 bore but the bores would have been tight. Not impossible but improbable. Hope this helps. Lagopus.....

Looks like it was proofed 3 times...black-powder then reproofed for nitro with 2 & 1/2" chambers then again and 70 mm or 2 &3/4" chambers.

What shot charge is the gun currently rated to handle?

Gee, Dr. Wanker seems a tad upset over someone using a perfectly acceptable, interchangeable, and long accepted alternative in firearms terminology. Check this link for the definition of Water Table. For Dr. Wanker, Ed Good, nca225, and other semi-literates, it will be found under "W".

http://www.hallowellco.com/abbrevia.htm

Mental note... must remember to always refer to it as a water table! Now then, is it screwdriver or turn screw... screw or pin... cartridge or hull... hood or bonnet...? Maybe we need to build a second wall, and make Great Britain pay for it.

Like was said the Westley records are only going to tell you that the gun was originally black proofed with choke. The "Pigeon gun" sounds good but it's just a selling a selling point. this gun is a long way from being a pigeon gun.

It's marked .740 I suspect that's the current bore diameter....meaning it had been honed from .719/.729 to .740. It's advertised at .736 meaning someone isn't measuring it right.

The 2 & 3/4", 850 bar would probably be the last proof...If it was I I'd keep looking.

The "bar" proofmarks didn't come into use until 1985. The old "tons" marks were in use from 54-85, and the individual who submitted the gun could request either tons or bars marks during a transitional period, 85-89. After that, bars only until 2005. After that, 850 bar was replaced by "STD". Magnum/superior proof became "SUP".

I've seen 850 bar guns with both 65mm and 70mm chambers. I own a pre-WWII Jeffery 12 that was reproofed at 850 bar with 70mm chambers. I'm guessing that chamber lengthening was the reason behind the reproof. If reproofed in the "bars" era, there should be a bore diameter measurement in millimeters.

Homeless Joe- can you help me out and explain this statement to me a bit? Trying to learn- thx. Isn't it a good thing if it was re proofed after reamed?
The 2 & 3/4", 850 bar would probably be the last proof...If it was I I'd keep looking.

I believe the fractional marks on the "BARREL FLATS" are 13/1. 13/1 = .719" in diameter. This means that when the barrel received its first proof the bore would accept a .719" plug gage to a depth of 9" but would not accept a .729" (12ga) plug.
A 15/1 mark would put the bore between .685" & .693", highly unlikely for a gun chambered for 12ga shells.
Interesting that Wonko, got "Up on his Tricycle" so big in trying to correct the term "Watertable" yet made no mention of the fact that was not even where the mark was located at all. To describe the barrel flats as action flats is just as inaccurate as saying watertable. So there.