doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Stock Length

I know the only way to know the exact stock length that you need is a proper fitting but is there any sort of rule of thumb that may help?

I always seem to get whacked on the cheek when I shoot and I am beginning to suspect that the stock is simply too short. If I shoot a full 100 shot round of sporting clays I have a knot on my cheek the size of a marble and it stays for 2-3 days.

I usually am shooting either a A grade fox with a stock length of 14 1/8" and a drop DAH of 2 1/2" or a Sterlingworth Field gun with a stock length of 14" and a DAH of 3".

I am 6'3" with a shirt sleeve length of 37". Does anyone else think that stock length may be the cause of my troubles?

Thanks in advance for any help or tips.

s/
Kevin

Yes, I think a 14" stock is probably too short for 6'3" unless you're built like a defensive lineman. I'm 6'3" and shoot a 15 1/8" lop with 2" of drop for targets. Use a slip on pad to add length, and there's similar removable things to add comb height for testing your changes.

A real gunfitting is a good thing, but you can get in the ballpark.

My goodness, shooting a classic SxS is suppose to be FUN. Several issues:
1. If it's a 12g, I'd strongly suggest going to 7/8 oz 1200 fps loads. Fiocchi calls their's 'Training Load' and you can order them from Graf and Sons http://www.grafs.com/ but there are lots of other sources for light loads:
Polywad 'Vintager' http://www.polywad-shotgun-shells.com
Eley subsonic/low recoil http://eleyshotshells.com
ARMUSA 'Vintage' http://www.armusa-performance.com
Kent http://www.firearmservice.com
RST http://www.rstshells.com 570-553-1651
2. I'm almost 6'3", 175, 36" sleeve and on my SxSs use 15"-15 1/4" LOP. You may well be mounting the gun out on your deltoid (shoulder) muscle (rather than on your pectoralis/chest) in order to auto-correct the short stock which acts like a severe cast-off making it harder to get your eye looking down the rib and causes the gun to recoil more into your face.
3. When you get the correct LOP, you'll have even more drop to the stocks (your face will be further back) They don't look very good, but you may need to add one of those stick on pads. Southwest Shooter's Supply has several different kinds and thicknesses http://www.swshotguns.com
and they also cushion recoil quite a bit.
Brother, you do have good taste in shotguns so make them right for you! Have you been on http://foxcollectors.s10.forumsplace.com/ yet?

hamptonlawyer, my height and arm length are very close to yours. I need a 15 inch length of pull. See if any friends you shoot with have a slip on pad that can lengthen the stock for the next time you shoot. Or you can buy one, they are not expensive.

Also, make sure you're keeping your head down.

I too am almost 6'3", with a 36-37" sleeve. In a heavy winter parka I shoot 14 3/4, but use a slip on pad to take that up to 15 1/4+ for light clothing.

An old, crude indication of LOP is to hold the gun with your strong hand, finger on the (front) trigger as if to pull it, with the butt against the inside of your strong arm folded to 90 degrees. If the butt just touches the bottom of your bicep, you're off to a good, approximate start.

Kevin,
Very very likely the gun(s) is too short for you, but not absolutely for sure. IMO, proper LOP is determined by things such as distance from the center of your body to the "pocket" in the shoulder (how broad you are), neck length, head size/shape. I believe arm length and how tall you are plays little role except that most tall people are proportionately bigger overall, wider in the shoulder and longer in the neck.

There are so many variables that nailing them all down is really not practical. That's why measuring with a try gun or several guns is more practical.

I highly recommend Michael Yardley's book on Gunfitting, if you are interested in do-it-yourself fitting.

But back to these guns swatting you. I think the drop and more importantly, the pitch may be wrong for you. Lengthening the LOP may help or not. But definitely get the LOP where it's proper for you first, then play with the pitch. A slip-on pad is ideal for this. Simply cut some tapered shims from wood, plastic or rubber to put in the slip-on pad.

My rule of thumb is that your nose should be 1/2 to 1" away from the base of your thumb, when the gun is properly mounted. Properly mounted means with the butt in the pocket formed just inside of your should muscle. The heel should be about even with the top of your shoulder. It should not be on the shoulder muscle, not out on the upper bicep and not low on the pectoral muscle.
Drop at the heel without knowing the drop at comb is not very complete information. The comb height is what determines where you cheek will be. The usual result of a too-short LOP is getting your nose bumped by your thumb, not getting a chop in the cheek. A cheek chop IMO, is more likely a comb that is so high you have to smash your cheek down on it hard to have a proper view of the rib. It could also be a combination of too much drop causing the gun to rotate up, allowed by too loose a grip with the front hand and heavier than necessary loads in a light gun. It's also possible that you are simply cheeking the gun too tightly. This not uncommon, especially with long-time rifle shooters who think that's what they are supposed to do.
It's quite possible that you'd be better fit with a longer stock but I doubt that LOP is the case of your chopped cheek. JL

Agree with Chuck that the cheek whacking is more due to pitch, but I do also think that your LOP should be more towards maybe 16". I am 6'1" with 34" sleeves and find 15"LOP adequate.

Here is a clarifying excerpt from Michael Yardley's Gunfitting book:

“The vast majority of guns measure in the range of 12 1/2in. To 16 1/2in. (length to centre) with ninety per cent of men being accommodated in the range 14 to 15 1/2in. The basic rule with length is that the shooter should have as long a gun stock as he can comfortably and consistently mount and swing. A gun with a long stock points better than a gun with a short stock and, providing it is not too long, controls recoil better.”

Better more length than less.

JC(AL)

I have had a proper gunfitting, I'm 5'-9" and my LOP is 14-3/4" to the heel. I's say your LOP is too short.

Kevin,

Good points all, and I agree with'em. I'm 6' 2", 165#, and shoot a 15 1/4" A grade Fox. I don't think it could fit much better than it does. I read Yardley's book and fitted myself through trial and error testing on a patterning board, then later had the opportunity to be fitted by Bill Kempfer at Deep River, where the Southern S x S Championship is held each year. The measurements he gave me after the fitting were only fractions off what I had determined to be right on my own.

One other thing I would suggest, Kevin. Work on setting your guns up to shoot to POA (or slightly high if that's what you prefer) while having your cheek just lightly touching the comb. I see so many men who, especially when they get serious about targets, scrunch their cheek down tightly on the stock without realizing they're doing so. This, in combination with a 2 1/2" to 3" drop is the perfect recipe for cheek bruising. I have developed the habit, over time, of very lightly cheeking the gun and can honestly say that none of them kick me in the face. Not even the old Elsies and others with excessive drop. Try it next time you're shooting. This, in combination with a well fitted stock will end your cheek bruising, I'll bet.

We need to get together and shoot a round sometime. We shoot here at Beaver Dam Sporting Clays, just outside Hiltonia. Where do you shoot, Broxton Bridge?

BOL, Stan