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Recoil Rob:

A set of initials ending with a "S" is what I expected to see. I was just curious what the first initial might be. If most of the work was "inhouse" Nimrod/Thieme & Schlegelmilch probably weren't too worried about having any and all initials visible or restruck. Thanks for the effort. Have you run across any patent(German) info on the safety?

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

Raimey,

I have not looked for patent info on the safety, wouldn't know where to start. I can tell you that some years back I brought it to the Vintagers and showed the gun to Dietrich Apel. He was quite interested in the safety, said he had never seen one like it and photographed the gun for his database.

BTW, being a drilling the forend hook and the "S" were on the rifle barrel.

Regards,
Rob

Rob:

Have a gander at this safety on this T&S and see if it is similar: http://www.bobjonesguns.com/details2.asp?id=4492S . With the stepped watertable and pin configuration, this looks to be a Nimrod type which is a hybrid between a boxlock, sidelock & sideplate. I may try to find some info on the safety.

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

FREI translates as FREELY but must mean FIRE, meaning when the lever is pointing down and FREI is exposed, the gun will fire. If the gun is cocked it takes some effort to move it to the horizontal position, covering the FREI and putting it on SAFE. Abe Chaber told me that's because it is lifting all three of the hammers and blocking them. After firing, when the gun is decocked the lever is very easy to move to the horizontal position.

I believe Kreighoff currently has a much improved version, the Combi Cocking device which allows you to choose whether, after reloading, you want the gun to be in the FIRE position or SAFE.

Anytime the lever is in the horizontal, SAFE position, as soon as the gun is opened the lever will drop, exposing the FREI, and when the gun is closed it is ready to fire. Sort of a "reverse" automatic safety.

Dropping the lever to fire the gun is not too quiet a maneuver, easier to carry the gun loaded, cocked and open.

The Bob Jones gun looks as though it may be the same set up but on the other side which may be better for a right hander. The effort needed to move the gun off SAFE is enough that you must use your thumb. My gun may have been built for a lefty. I can carry it with my right thumb across the top of the action and work the lever but I think these guns were made to only have the safety on when absolutely necessary.

Rob

Rob:

I think it stems from feuer frei, or fire at will/fire freely. Arbeit macht frei, work will set you free might be an option. Thanks for the explaination.

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

[img][/img]



These images are either from a GGCA article by Peter Ravn Lund(GGCA No. 34 at page 20), from his copyright site, from an article by F. Franzen or may be found in a text or catalogue describing Funk's ”Jubiläums-Drilling 1835 – 1935" as I can't remember.

Here is a T&S with a Funk safety. Funk patented the safety & in the early 1930s, or in 1930, Ernst Funk, F.W. Kessler's son-in-law, purchased T&S for his son Alfred or Alfred put up the funds and made the purchase. Also recall that Ernst Freidrich Schlegelmilch's wife was a Kessler, probably a sister to F.W. Kessler. Not only are the sourcing relationships complex and interconnected but also are the families and I guess the sourcing to be due to the family connections.

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

I contacted Mr. Peter Ravn Lund. He kindly responded and informed me that the figures came from a 1939 Funk(Christoph) Catalogue of which a reprint may be available at GGCA( http://www.germanguns.com ) & I'll check next week at the get-together at Pintail Pointe.

Being purely conjecture and possibly an educated guess, Heinrich Ernst Schlegelmilch looks to be the son of master gunsmith Friedrich Wilhelm Schlegelmilch and this may be the reason that some attribute Heinrich Schlegelmilch to be a founder of Thieme(Adolf) & Schlegelmilch(1852). But he merely took the reins after his father retired. I also guess Louis & Robert Schlegelmilch's father Ernst Friedrich Schlegelmilch, who may have been a master stocker, to be the brother of Friedrich Wilhelm Schlegelmilch. The use of the same name or names in a family line or family tree makes for a very confusing retrace. Also in the 1930s, a Karl & Lida, not Linda, Funk owned the Christoph August Funk & Company, which with Christoph & Funk complicates things.

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

Raimey,

Thanks for posting that, it certainly does look like my guns safety except on the right side. Be interesting to see what you find out at Pintail.

Thanks, Rob

Rob:

I really didn't glean any info on the Funk safety, but I did learn how to remove and insert the removable trigger plate on a Neptune as during the 1st GGCA show & tell in the a.m. Saturday a fella watched Steven Meyer remove one with some assistance. The the fella was showing his brother-inlaw at Mid-South Guns table and without permission removed the trigger plate which is held in position on the triggerbow guard end by a rotating pistolgrip end cap. After retrieving it from a British cap, I was blessed and it fell right in.

The following 1960s-1970s vintage pic is of Alfred Schlegelmich, performing a re-barrel of a Meffert drilling owned by Mike Ford, who sourced Helumt Kerner for the tubes which all but had to have been forged at Heym. Helmut Kerner was the grandson of Emil Kerner(Aechte Suhler Jagdwaffen -1904 advert - http://books.google.com/books?id=JeMqAAA...uhl&f=false ) and Helmut Kerner was also the grandson of Immanuel Meffert on his mother's side(this may not be exactly correct but is close and I'll work on the links). Alfred Schlegelmilch wasn't a master by worked at Heym during the week and at Walter Grass's shop on Saturday. Heym sourced Grass for installing scope mounts and the like.






Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

This is a cross ref. to the "Mauser Schlegelmilch" thread in the single shot heading:

"But Robert Schlegelmilch seems to have been a principal in Suhler Waffenfabrik Schlegelmilch & Metzner. And I guess Metzner to be one of Albin, Georg or Max or the possibility exits that he was Albin Georg Max Metzner and there were a couple generations. At any rate Suhler Waffenfabrik Schlegelmilch & Metzner was dissolved in 1901 and Suhler Waffenfabrik Robert Schlegelmilch emerged and existed till 1923. The 2 Louis Kelber forge marks(K in a jagged circle) have to be about the best I've ever viewed, evidently with a large amount of effort in application or very little wear from the tube being profiled/worked. Those are typical forge marks and the "R.S." set of initials, or the other set, completed the firearm. This example looks to be a WWI or possibly post WWI example and hints at the fact that an example with a tube or tubes stamped "R.S." could be valid for Robert Schlegelmilch of Suhler Waffenfabrik Robert Schlegelmilch up till 1923, with a proof date being in 1924 or possibly later."


Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse