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Owenjj3 Offline OP
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Hi Everyone. I have been hunting this little gem for the past 3 grouse seasons. /IMG
Questions:

1. Looks like chambers lengthened and bores reproved in 99. Any idea of this BLE's age?
2. I believe the progenitor of the firm to be "B. Norman" reportedly an ex-Purdey man. Most all of his guns were made to a very high standard. Can someone knowledgeable about this provincial maker confirm or comment?
3. Does anyone know if the maker's records are extant and accessible? The location of manufacture is Framlingham in the south of England.
4. I am guessing this was a Birmingham action finished by Norman. Confirm?
5. You can see on the barrel flats a small "JA". A friend who looked it over once mentioned that a Purdey barrelmaker "J. Aldous"(sp?) also marked his work in this fashion. Coincidence?

Thanks.



Last edited by Owenjj3; 07/06/18 05:51 PM.

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Can't help much on exact age, but from the original proofmarks, sometime between 1925-1954. Reproofed at 850 bar, but chambers NOT lengthened. Marked 65MM. It'd be 70MM for 2 3/4".

Very fragmentary information on Norman in Boothroyd's "Directory". He places Norman in Suffolk around 1900. From the proofmarks, it's clear he was still in business at least as late as the mid-1920's. Your speculation that it started life in Birmingham is a good guess.

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Here is the IGC data on Benjamin Norman:

Name Benjamin Norman
Other Names Norman & Sons
Address1 Castle Street
Address2 Church Street
City/Town Framlingham
County Suffolk
Country United Kingdom
Trade Gunmaker
Other Address 10 Church Street, Woodbridge, Suffolk.
Dates 1871-1975?

Notes

Benjamin Norman was the son of William Norman Jnr (a butcher) and Ann. He was born in 1833 in Eye in Suffolk. In about 1847 he was apprenticed to a gun maker, but whether it was a local gunmaker or not is not known. In the 1851 census he was living at home with his mother (then a widow), brothers and sister; this implies that he was apprenticed to a local gun maker but it may well be that he was apprenticed to James Purdey, he reportedly worked for Purdey (amongst others?), possibly as an outworker. Dallas shows a 'Norman, paid 2.4s.0d in June 1863. In the 1861 census he was recorded living at 43 Markham Street, Chelsea. He was married to Eliza at the time and they had a son, William (b.1860 in Chelsea). He was recorded as a gunmaker trading under his own name at 43 Markham Street only from 1869 to 1871. The family does not appear to have been recorded in the 1871 census, so it may be that they were in the process of moving and setting up the business in Framlingham at that time although Benjamin was recorded as a gunmaker in Castle Street only from 1878. In the 1881 census he described himself as a master gun maker, and at this time his son, William (aged 21) was described as a gun maker. In about 1883 the family moved to Church Street.

By 1891 Benjamin and Eliza were living in Market Hill leaving William and his wife, Mary, and their son William G Norman (b.1889), to live above the shop in Church Street. By the time of the 1901 census, William and Mary had had at least one other son, Benjamin H (b.1892) and a daughter, Hilda (b. 1894). In about 1901 it appears the firm established a branch in Woodbridge, Suffolk, which was run by William G Norman. The photograph of the Framlingham shop taken in about 1906 shows Benjamin Norman on the right, William on the left, and Benjamin H Norman in the middle aged about 14. Benjamin, the grandfather, probably retired in about 1914 and William took over the business. By 1916 it was known as ?

In about 1917 the branch in Woodbridge was recorded at 10 Church Street, by them the firm was known as Norman & Sons. The Woodbridge shop closed at some time between 1940 and 1955. By the 1970s the firm had moved from Framlingham to Haughley, and it specialised in restoring guns; it appears to have closed in about 1975.

Other Info
We are indebted to Stu Nestling, great great grandson of Benjamin Norman, and his mother for confirmation of the above and for the shop and invoice images. As Norman & Sons, the firm sold cartridges under the names "Gastight", "Service", "Special" and "Standard" (post 1922).

Tim

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I have seen a lot of guns with the J.A. mark on the barrels. And almost all of mine are so marked.

From a post by Bushveld in 2011:

"Joseph Asbury Birmingham barrel maker to the trade in Weaman's Row."

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If that is an "O" above the crossed swords (the mark is upside down in your photo) in the lower left hand corner of the flats, the original year of proof was 1934, according to the linked Hallowell & Co. proof date codes.

http://www.hallowellco.com/proof_date_codes.htm

A very nice looking gun with beautiful scroll & game scene engraving.

Norman & Sons may have actually finished it, or perhaps more likely ordered it from the trade with their name engraved on it.

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Owenjj3 Offline OP
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Thanks for all the comments and information. As to question number 5 I did a little more sleuthing and noticed a Purdey with barrels marked JA (no periods) claimed by Julia's auction to have been barreled by Aldous. The Norman pictured above obviously has J.A. ( with periods). See below for a few more parting shots of the gun :

[img:center]

Last edited by Owenjj3; 07/06/18 05:53 PM.

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" JA "Joseph Asbury Birmingham trade machinists ,The name is now owned by AA Brown . Not quite clear but if the number on the short rib is prefixed with an " H " then the gun was built by Holloway and Naughton .

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Owenjj3 Offline OP
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That is really cool. To answer the questions above, that is an "O" above the crossed swords and the short rib number is preceded by an H. So it is an H&N originally proofed in 1934 and either finished or retailed by Norman. The collective knowledge here is pretty impressive.


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In 1977 I bought a leg vice off Holloway's .You never know it may have been use when your gun was built .

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That's a nice gun you have there. What are the other stamps above J.A. ? I can't quite make them out from the pic.


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