doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Need to pick firearm please help with big dilemma

Glad I live in a state where a burglar or his lawyer doesn't get to pick and choose what ammo I should use in home defense. Gil

I agree with the logic of using the same brand of ammunition that your State or Local Police Depts. find acceptable. That would tend to deflate a lot of potential unpleasant accusations.

I somewhat disagree with the notion that hollow base wadcutters loaded backwards are ineffective or merely an urban myth. Although I no longer keep them in my home defense revolver of choice, when I adopted the practice, I did my own informal testing to prove to myself what they might do if called upon. In reading about these on the internet, I get the distinct impression that many of the opinions about them were formed without ever even trying them.

Some guys claim that loading them backwards will cause the center portion of the bullet to be blown out leaving essentially a lead tube stuck in the barrel. Since the center portion is the same thickness when facing either way, and pressure of equal powder charges would be the same, that idea is just silly.

Some guys claim that the skirts get blown off when loaded backwards, and the small portion that is left has very little penetration. Others claim that they are only accurate enough for very close range encounters, and that the HBWC loaded backward will keyhole after going a short distance.

In my Colt Trooper Mk III, I found them to be actually a bit more accurate loaded backwards than when loaded facing forward. Groups from a rest at 25 yards will usually keep 6 shots all touching in a tight cluster if I do my part, with absolutely no signs of keyholing. When fired into bundles of soaking wet newspaper, penetration was on the order of 7-8 inches with massive expansion. 7-8 inches is more than adequate to reach the vitals of most any man I know. If it took more than 7-8 inches to reach some attackers heart or liver, he is probably so fat that I could outrun him with my ankles shackled. With a face on shot, 12 or more inches of penetration is likely going to pass entirely through the average human chest cavity and exit out the back unless the bullet breaks up on ribs or is stopped by the spine. Stand with your back against a wall and measure the depth of your chest. When fired into water filled gallon milk jugs, they would blow the first jug into smithereens and oftentimes rupture the jug directly behind the first. I have never fired them into blocks of ballistics gelatin, but have fired them into other informal mediums such as muddy creek banks. I have no doubt they would reach an attackers heart and pulverize it. I have only used Speer 148 gr. hollow base wadcutters. I cannot say what expansion or penetration would be of any other brand, or any other alloy for those who cast their own wadcutters. I also can't say what might happen if that huge hollow point got filled with heavy clothing covering the target. The load I was using was 3.2 gr. of Bullseye as I recall, and it was only moving around 800 fps. As I said earlier, recoil was very light, even for my wife, and it was much easier to control and get back on target than full house loads. Recoil was not a consideration for me, but it was for her, as was possible over penetration if she ever had to shoot an intruder when my kids might be in the next room.

I know there are much better commercial factory loads for self defense these days, and because of the uncertainties of what might follow a defensive shooting, I will continue to use them instead of my 148 gr Speer HBWC's or any other handloads. As an aside, I have also experimented with grinding a drill bit to the same diameter as a .22 Short round, and chucking .50 cal 370 gr. Maxi Balls in a Unimat Lathe, and drilling a hole in the nose. Then you insert a .22 short into this hollow point with the rimfire priming end facing forward. This turns a slow lumbering muzzleloading projectile into a bullet that explodes on impact. I read that the buffalo hunters used to do this, but since it is illegal to use explosive bullets for hunting, and there are no buffaloes in my area, all I can say is that they expand much much more than the standard Maxi-Ball. None of the above are recommendations, and should only be done at your own risk.

Thank you. I'm going with a six shot revolver and keeping my five-shot 940. Both are chambered for the 9x19 cartridges.

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Although Speer Gold Dot is most proven right now my ammo of choice is Federal HST as this was what LGS had for sale.

"Hunt Master", sorry for the long diversion. Glad you came to a conclusion with all of the 'flack'.

Cheers,
Hoot

Yes, good choice, Jag. Now just find a nice, warm swamp, a buddy at the steel mill or a real good lawyer. Chances are if you ever use that thing you'll need at least one of them. That's one ugly lamp btw.


_______________________________
Summer Wind. Frank Sinatra

Keith,
urban legend had I that the hollow base loaded backwards was an instant stopper. no such thing.
informal testing is just that. I have not used them. but I put more stock in the FBI ballistics tests that have been done scientifically, quantifiably and formally than my or any other informal tests.
you can use whatever you want but my point is that handloaded ammunition for self defense is not the smart thing to do. And for those who say they are glad that in their state they don't have to worry about what ammo they use, do what you wish. But if you talk to a good defense attorney who has experience defending law abiding citizens who have sued firearms for self defense, you might see another perspective.
like I said earlier, this is my opinion and its worth absolutely nothing.
But, as for me, factory loaded Speer Gold Dots are my choice in any handgun I can get them for.

We are all grown ass men here and can make our own decisions. Good luck, good shooting and be safe.