doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Wild Birds vs. Game Preserves

The Anti-hunters would have people believe that the right thing to do would be let nature take it's course.
Let the Hawks kill all the quail, rabbits, rodents and Songbirds then starve to balance the population.

I can see their point...starvation and extinction is alot more human than hunting.
L.F.

The hunting preserves I've seen have been useful for training dogs, period. The habitat was poor, the birds were poorly conditioned and naive, and the shooting was unsporting. In my opinion they aren't places where you can even start a kid with a clear conscience.

There is a "luxury" preserve in Oregon where they give an award for shooting five different species (the "Little Five" I guess?). All are cative-reared birds. You might as well get an award for buying every item off a shelf at KMart. Pathetic!

As for HomelessjOe's desire to kill raptors to increase game bird populations, it would be about as helpful as killing hunters. We knew you weren't a biologist just by reading your post... you didn't have to tell us! I'm thinking you should try reading a study, just one, about DDT bioaccumulation and persistance, THEN share all you know. Just a thought....

Like many, I wish all I hunted was wild birds. I try to make several trips each year, just so I can. Every one of these trips requires 10-14 hours of drive time, so I need to schedule a long weekend. I go to Wisconsin for grouse, Missouri for quail, Iowa for pheasant...

I also belong to a "hunt club". You reserve a field and pay for the birds that will be released. No, it is not the same, but all that is available at times. It is legal under the law. I hate to say this, but that is really what it comes down to today. I have a mature pointer who really does not care and a spaniel pup who will learn quicker if there are birds. As my friend, George Hickox says, "95% of the issues with dog training can be solved with 1 word, Birds." (Nope can't keep pigeons here, illegal.)

When I was young, I never had to travel far. It was easy to knock on a few doors. Never had to "scout" for deer. That was simply part of the reason to go out and pick wild mushrooms. Those doors are not closed, they are gone today. They have become strip malls and planned communities.

Revdocdrew is very correct. Whether we own 100,000 of prime pheasant and duck land, make weekend trips, go for long vacations, use state run put & take programs, or have to use a hunt club. It is still better than the alternative, no hunting at all.

The original question was about percentages. Well, my answer depends on the year. Some years 100% wild, some years 100% preserve.

Pete

Makes me want to smoke a cigar, just thinking about it. KBM

"Your missing the point of it all, if you need "something to shoot."


Aw shucks, Lowell, I was just kiddin' a little.

The simple fact is the good old days are all but gone. We've got guys like Ted Turner, who never did anything useful in his life, living on million acre ranches while most of the rest of us are driving hundreds of miles and paying through the nose to shoot guns they no longer make at whatever game we can find. I doubt anyone would rather shoot preserve game over wild, but every day less and less of us can afford to be choosy.

Even poor Jane Fonda has probably lost access to the ranch.

To those who believe that the hawks are to blame, some is true most is not. Most of us who see hawks soaring around are of the broad winged variety, mostly Red Tailed Hawks in the east and Broad Winged and Red Shouldered hawks in the mid-west. These birds of prey have very little effect on any game birds. Their style is to swoop down onto the ground and kill mostly rodents. The narrow-winged variety, Sharp Shinned, Coopers, do most of their hunting by chasing, are very good at catching songbirds, but too small for gamebirds. Goshawks and the falcons are the ones that will have no problem with gamebirds. The Goshawk prefers woods, and grouse, maneuvers through trees with that great tail of his and can chase them down. The falcons, mainly Perrigrine in the east and Prairre Falcon in the west are the true hunters and a treat to watch them in the quest for food. They say the Perrigrine can dive up to 180 mph. Have special baffels in their nose to breathe.
Lets not leave out the one of the greatest killer of gamebirds the Great Horned Owl, most of the time just takes the head. Loves freshly stocked pheasants.
And the greatest killer of all for quail, the feral cat. People that own them and let them loose should put bells on them.
Also most important is habitat. There has to be wood piles, fence rows, and thick cover for these birds to hide in.
DDT was a problem with hawks, the reason was that the DDT was to kill insects on crops, what eats insects, songbirds, what eats songbirds, some hawks. They found that the DDT injested by eating songbirds caused the egg producing calcium in the marrow of the hawks bones to cause them to have very thin shelled eggs. Almost wiped out the Perrigrine.
Anyway, everyone that is a hunter or a follower of birds of prey should learn more about them, instead of just wanting to get rid of them.
Raccons, foxes, skunks, opossums are more of a threat than all the hawks and owls combined. This is what happens when you ban trapping in states and the price of furs are not worth the effort to trap where you can.

I've seen a Cooper's hawk kill more than one adult Gambel's quail right in front of my living room window. Not saying this to imply that hawk control is a good thing - just an observation.

I absolutely agree that cats are the #1 problem, both feral and house cats whose owners let them out. Coyotes get a lot of the latter, and even though I like cats, in the wild they're a non-native predator and I have no problem killing them.

And from your post I see your never watched a Red Tail hunt. My post was not about my desire to kill any thing just based on what I see as an explanation of a country side devoid of Quail that was 20 years ago over run with them.

I used to hunt all around Ames Plantation a place managed for Quail that can't have a field trial unless they release Quail. I live 40 miles from there and I'd just about bet if you walked from Memphis to Grand Junction with the best dog in the country you wouldn't find a covey.
So you tell me why they're gone...Mr.Biologist.
L.F.

Probably the same reason why there are no wild pheasants left in Pa. The state game officials don't seem to care much about small game, especially game birds, just about the big game, deer, and bear here.
Some of the big bird states, South Datkota as one, there is millions coming into their revenue from mostly bird hunters, let the bird population dwindle by loss of habitat ,etc and they loose that revenue, there will be heads rolling. Here they don't care, industry and the people pay the taxes, not the hunters money.

JonR, didn't say they didn't kill gamebirds, just not often. Anything given a chance will try it and try it again. You didn't happen to be feeding the quail were you? Diner time. It's like putting up a bird feeder, the birds do come and it is nice to see them, and so do the hawks, easy meal. I am quilty of the bird feeder and do have a Sharp Shinned that does pay it a visit looking for that easy meal.