doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Idle pursuit of the ideal 20 ga

I don't post on this particular part of doublegun often, but I've been feeling the itch for a while now, and I'm wondering how best to scratch it. This might be the best place to start.

I'm shy of 20 gauges, with just an SKB 100 to my name in that department. So, I feel like I need one. But rather than plunge in headlong after every side by 20 out there, I thought maybe a good discussion here would be enjoyable and enlightening.

So, I hunt pheasants, mostly. Wild ones, over a great flushing dog. Late in the season, the snow gets deep, snowshoes are often in order, and a light double, easy to carry but still capable of reaching out, seems like a good plan. I have a 16 gauge William Evans hammer gun with 30 or 32" barrels that works, but hammers are slower in mitts and the barrels are longish enough to be in danger of getting snowed in.

What would be better? A 28" 20 maybe? (I have trouble taking barrels less than 28" seriously). Hammerless perhaps would be best (but I am flexible for the right geometry of hammers). 3" chambers nice (required?). At least one full choked barrel for sure. Light. Damascus/blackpowder is not a problem (but not a requirement).

My shotguns are mostly English, with a Merkel thrown in for good measure. Teutonic doubles work damn well, but are not my favorite . however, like Stanley shovels, perfectly serviceable. English are (my favorite). What I don't have is a good American double. This seems a somewhat serious shortfall, but of the few American doubles I have handled, only a Lefever felt good.

For the sake of some interesting discussion and my personal education, what should I look for? What should I put into my searches of Gunbroker etc?

Oh yes, I'm not rich. Not rich at all. Might be coming into a little more funding if the Good Wife permits, but her mood swings with the stock market.

I look forward to interesting ideas. Pheasant season is, after all, only 21 weeks and a day away, the nesting season is coming along well, and my dog, Gus, is fit as a fiddle!

For a shooter, a later 20ga. Sterlingworth. Some of the Savage guns have decent dimensions.

If you're in the market for a nice, light American made 20, I think you need look no further than a A H Fox. Fox's receivers are gauge specific, and are smaller and lighter than most all other American made boxlocks. The reason is that the cocking mechanism and lock design utilize so few moving parts ..... three per barrel on a Fox. Less moving parts means less metal has to be milled away to house them, which, in turn, means that the receiver can be smaller to begin with and still have adequate strength. That describes a Fox, and no other American made box lock.

That said, I have a special place in my heart for small gauge L C Smiths, too. They are very petite and carry well. Between the Fox and the Smith you should be able to completely fulfill your desire.

SRH

Twenty gauge Fox guns are fantastic, but they're pricey. Not so pricey though as Parkers.

Twenty ga Smiths are cheaper but usually have cracked stocks. A 20ga Ithaca, either NID or Flues is a bargain on today's market.

The Flues model is my favorite. It was built as an upland gun where the NID was engineered to handle heavier loads and seems 'clunkier' to me..

Just some ideas of my own for what they're worth. Great fun making your choices!...Geo

Missed the fact you wanted to go American.

Bro. Brent: think hard on this. A 6# 2 1/2" chamber vintage 20g, even if full and more full, is probably not the best choice for late season wild Iowa pheasants. Lose a few that have been hit, and the good idea won't seem so good.
Might I suggest a pre-1913 Smith or a Fox in 16 gauge, 6 1/2#, with forcing cones lengthened but original chambers and the head of (either) stock glasbedded. You could use anything from the RSTs 3/4 oz. load up to 1 1/8 oz. pheasant whackers.

Bro. Larry will be along to point out a 6 1/2# British 12g would do it all also, and he'd be correct

I have two Fox 20s. Both have about 3" drop at the heel. Most of the Foxes do. I shoot them just fine but I had to practice to learn to shoot a gun with that much drop.

My son has an AYA 20ga sidelock. It is a very nice gun and well built.

The Ithaca Flues are light and cheap, say $800. Most of them have about 3" of drop. I would only shoot RSTs through them for sure. I am a fan of Flues.

If you want to shoot 1oz high velocity loads you might pass on the Philadelphia Foxes and the Flues.

You live in Iowa?
Sooner or later you will need a gun that can handle non-tox. Which really means for most people, steel shot.

In a 20, that's a 3" load.

You're probably looking at a Turk gun, or a Beretta, in guns with two barrels.

Let me be the first to recommend a nice Japanese gun - a Browning BSS 28" Sporter. Straight stock, slender semi beavertail, single trigger (for when it's cold and you're wearing gloves), 3" chambers and if unmolested mod/full chokes. Should come in around 6.5 pounds. A pheasant killing machine that you can stuff any load you want into. They handle well, are amazingly reliable and cost around $2,000. They are a little tough to find. American classic SxS guns are neat, and I own a few, but old guns are like English sports cars - if you want to use them you better know a good mechanic/gunsmith.
I would also recommend a Beretta 470 or 471. I had a great 12 gauge 470 with 28" fixed chokes, straight stock, splinter forend and single selective trigger. This was the most reliable SxS I have ever owned as it never broke or malfunctioned. I put thousands of rounds through it and shot piles of birds. The 20s come in any configuration you want.
http://www.gunbroker.com/item/564133083

You could get a Winchester 21. An American Classic you can shoot hard. A bit more money. Here's a nice pheasant gun.
http://www.gunbroker.com/item/564175735

Have fun shopping.
Jeff

The Ithaca Flues guns are good, honest, light (for American) and practical upland guns. The challenges are to find one that hasn't been badly altered (chambers opened) or abused (cracked). Early ones seem to trend lighter, but... also seem to have too-much drop. Graded guns are lovely... but not inexpensive, so the bargains are the Field grades. Hand loading may be necessary to keep pressures and recoil down.