doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Can anyone held identify this damascus pattern

Those are some stout loads.

Revdoc:
As FYI, where did you locate conclusive information that "Nitro" barrels were available on Smith guns in 1895? I know that "Crown" barrels were standard on the Pigeon Gradae as early as 1894, but while conducting my research on the Pigeon Grade, I tried to determine the date availability of Nitro barrels and was unable to make a concrete determination.

HOMELESS:
THANKS FOR CATCHING THAT TYPO! I also learned the forum "edit" function works, and have made that important correction.

Tom: Alls I knows bout LCs comes from Houchins' L.C. Smith "The Legend Lives"
That's how I interpret the chart on p. 387 and the top of p. 382 "The Hunter Arms Co. introduced their famous Nitro and Crown fluid steel barrels in 1895."

Doc:
It could well be that John uncovered hard evidence of that fact in the research for his book and I'm just stupid and overlooked the obvious when doing my own research (I do believe 1895 could be the correct date for Nitro Steel, only that I could never prove that assumption conclusively); but keep this one fact in mind on some of the things you read therein. John is an attorney, and attorneys don't make a living on hard fact; their living is made on creating "reasonable doubt" and reaching "logical conclusions". I consider John a dear friend, and love ole John like a brother, and any remarks made here are certainly not intended to criticize his work, or give the appearance that I am in some way more knowlegeable; but rather to simply state that John sometimes reaches conclusions on certain topics on which I do not agree. As FYI, on page 386 is a sentence that states "The early catalogs also noted that Krupp barrels were available on lightweights as early as 1895"; without double checking my DGJ article, my own reserach found that Krupp barrels were never an option prior to 1900 and were eliminated from the catalog entirely after 1905. Consider that for whatever you may think it is worth.

I am sorry but you are correct in the fact that I am a bit of a novice when it comes to Smiths. I own several fine ones, but I have not done a whole lot of research on them to date. I will definitely have to join the forum you suggested. I'll post some photos from the bottom of my Pigeon grades barrels for you to see, I don't know, perhaps they are factory replacements, I would be interested in knowing. If so the engraving and inlay must have been done at the same time on the top rib.

I guess I have never been brave enough to run smokeless loads in any of my damascus guns, though I have read several excellent articles and arguments to make me believe that it is certainly possible and reasonable. I just like the feel of black powder and that is what I prefer to use. I do the same thing in my other antique and reproduction rifles and pistols, just a preference I guess. I've shot a lot of ducks and geese in North Dakota with blackpowder bismuth loads and don't find them to be any less effective than smokeless on these game birds. I also enjoy the ritual of loading these cartridges with period tools and find it a good way to relax after a long day. This is a great site and has been a tremendous resource to me, keep up the good work.

Methinks Geno might be right...which would not surprise me

"is no system" sums it up, at the very least there is no "clear" system or pattern. Leaves much to interpertation or imagination.

Still, in the end, very nice barrels.

Best,
Mark

The closest I can find to a match is Jules Evrard, but there is no information about this maker. So, they may not even be in the correct time period. Smith had the same sources as the other makers of this period. So, it very well could have been a contract from Belgium that was farmed out to lesser makers because of work load.

Alex, you asked about redoing the barrels. I would, it is not that expensive. It would certainly bring out the pattern even more.

I believe Geno to be correct. It is some type of chain damascus, which is what I first thought when I saw them. However, not having another example.... Yes Geno, we do miss Oscar at these moments.

Drew,

Here is some trivia for you. It seems the Walloon gun makers often used coffee in reference to work. "The coffee is so thick you can cut it." "You have to whistle for your coffee." Translated to, "I am buried with work." "I have no work."

Pete

It dosent look anything like my 1905 LC Smith 3E chain damascus or my Lefever chain damascus. It is kind of like my American Arms co though. The bottom pic is of Alex's gun for comparison.

Pete, thanks for the info. I may at some point re-finish the barrels, though for the moment I think I will probably just add the Silvers reproduction butt pad. I have played around quite a bit with bone and charcoal color case hardening and also charcoal blueing, I've also browned several muzzleloader barrels and have been a follower of Oscar's for many years. I would like to attempt to finish a set of damascus tubes using his methods and as time permits I will possibly try it. I do have several lesser valued damascus guns that I would work on first however. Thanks again for all the information, regardless of the work I do on this one I do intend to take it out in the fall for ducks assuming I can get a fresh supply of Bismuth beforehand. I have been shooting it for the last couple evenings with my own black powder handloads and it works very nicely on hand thrown clays. I expect it will work equally so on ducks and perhaps the odd snow that comes too close.

Thanks again.

Regards,

Alex Johnson