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GaryW #442243 04/21/16 10:32 AM
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Zero possibility of post WWII as the tube sequence numbers are on the underside of the left tube & script g on lower rib. You might want to consult "The Standard Directory of Proof Marks" by G. Wirnsberger.

Cheers,

Raimey
rse

GaryW #442247 04/21/16 10:44 AM
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100% post WWII

>>>You might want to consult "The Standard Directory of Proof Marks" by G. Wirnsberger.<<<

This I have done, page 183, German edition.

GaryW #442249 04/21/16 10:47 AM
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Is this gun worth $1800 U.S.? I am interested in it as a well made shooter.

GaryW #442252 04/21/16 10:50 AM
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The gun is worth, anyone will pay for it, who has have it in his hands...
Have a look here on a german page of classic Sauer Guns:

http://www.altejagdwaffen.de/Langwaffen.137.0.html

@Ger ich hatte Dich gewarnt..... Du liegst falsch!

Cheers,
Gunwolf

GaryW #442254 04/21/16 10:57 AM
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Ger ich hatte Dich gewarnt..... Du liegst falsch!

Ganz bestimmt nicht!
Open your eys and look at the proof marks.

GaryW #442256 04/21/16 12:01 PM
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To see more clear, have a look at this nice russian site:

http://sauer.net.ru/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=19&Itemid=48#klema

On the site below there is a picture with numberd proof marks.

Google made a translation in which I marked something in bright letters.
The point is, that the DDR took over the proof marks of the German Reich.

I copied the whole article, because it's interesting:

Date rifles 1153 - Test date / shooting. (Month and year, here: November 1953). Used with 453 in 1945 - Test date / shooting (month and year are: April 1953). 6/53 - Test date / shooting (Month / Year here: June 1953). For use up to 1933 and after 1950 12/70 - Size / Length of the chamber. It was applied from 1933 to 1950. Hallmarks: a - Stamp indicating retest weapons after repairs or modifications. B - The first and only test guns smoky - black powder. in - place of the powder tests - the city of Suhl (as &#8470;13-17). 1 - Preliminary test gunpowder barrel hunting rifles to their assembly. Sign mandatory; 2 - the ultimate test of gunpowder barrel rifles after their assembly. Sign mandatory; 3 - gauge shotguns; 4 - a sign indicating that the stems are smooth (the shot); 5 - smooth trunk with chokom; 6 - has a smooth trunk Porting "paradox", 7 - rifled barrel. Intended for shooting a bullet This sign was placed on the double-barreled rifled barrel combination guns, tees and fittings; 8 - trunks nitroporohom tested. Changes in the mark of the mandatory markings and Germany after World War I: 9 - Preliminary test gunpowder barrels to their assembly, 10 - the final test of the collected gunpowder barrels. Mandatory and additional marks according to the law of Germany, 1939 .: 11 - preliminary test trunks to build black powder; 12 - the final test of the collected trunks, including smokeless powder; 12a - stigma secondary and final test of the barrel or gun black (smoke-free) powder. 13 - located in the powder tests - the city of Suhl. Marks plants in Suhl in the period 1151-1950 gg .: 14 - preliminary test trunks black powder. Sign mandatory; 15 - final test trunks after they assemblies black powder. Sign mandatory; 16 - the final test of the collected trunks smokeless powder; 17 - sign indicates that the test is conducted in the city of Suhl. Marking GDR marks, adopted in 1950: 18 - preliminary test gunpowder barrel shotguns to their assembly. Sign mandatory; 19 - final testing gunpowder barrels after their assembly, 20 - control shafts after the final test powder. Placed next to the sign of the final test; 21 - trunk nitroporohom tested. The sign may be accompanied by the word "nitro" or without it; 22 - sign means that the barrel is ported choke; 23 - gunpowder barrel passed the test after repair guns, 24 - powder testing and monitoring were carried out in the city of Suhl, 25 - the time of the test. In this case - June 1960 26 - a sign of excellent quality guns; 27 - a sign of good quality guns; 28 - a sign of an acceptable quality guns. Marks, adopted in Germany in 1951 .: 29 - preliminary test trunks to build their black powder, 30 - final test collected trunks smokeless powder, 31 - a test barrel for firing ammunition "Magnum". Badge introduced in 1973 and can replace the signs 29 and 30; 32 - test trunks and monitoring were carried out in Ekkernforde. 34 - guns made in Suhl - the category of first-class products - 1 Qualitat. 37 - Quality mark, meaning "special quality". 38 - Stamp secondary and final test barrel shotguns or black powder. Branded Zaurovskie and other common hallmarks: 39 - branded as a heron - Stork firm Sauer put on cheap trigger guns. 40 stamp in the form of a hawk firm Sauer put on cheap hammerless gun. 41-42 - J.P. Sauer & Sohn, Suhl put on the strips of their guns. 44 - the same, often put on the guns. 45 - Tests for firing weapons, which are designed for firing conventional ammunition in 1974 or stamp enhanced (special) test smokeless gun (nitro) 1945-50gg gunpowder. 46- Stamp affixed to the gun, which is designed to fire ammunition with increased gas pressure. (Magnum) 1974 47 - Testing after repair of important parts and components since 1974 Stamp 48 handicraft associations gunsmiths' Byuhag "in Suhl. 49- People's Enterprise "Telman-Werk" in Suhl. 50 - Simson & Tattoo Factory Co, Suhl - «Zimson & Co" in Suhl. 51) engraved with the inscription: DRGM - abbreviation used between 1891 and 1945. Stands - D.R.G.M. - Deutsche Reichs Gebrauchs Muster how - German state trade pattern. For example - DRGM patent number 130243 = Deutsche Reich Gebrauchmuster 1900-1906gg - Axes rib serves as an indicator of a platoon. In addition: * source Satinsky - German - (German) kleyma- znaki- markirovka- shtamps. * Source of information on German germanskim- kleymam- znakam- markirovkam- stamps can be viewed here: C. A. Buturlin "shotgun and shooting out of it," Vsekohotsoyuza, Moscow 1937 Excerpts. * Source of information on German germanskim- kleymam- znakam- markirovkam- stamps can be viewed here: EV Shteingol'd "All of a hunting rifle" - Excerpts The laws of Germany in 1891 and 1939 were defined tolerances channel sizes trunks of the same caliber. Deviation from the mean bore size is marked on each barrel of German guns, but this is beyond the scope of our subject. gun manufacturing time can be indicated in figures 9.12, 10/29, 660. In all cases, the first digit (or the first two digits) indicates the month, the last two - the year of the gun powder test. Let us examine now with inscriptions, brand marks and trademarks on the trunks, the receiver strip, the butt plate. Over the entire period of manufacture of guns "Sauer" lettering on the outer parts of guns have evolved repeatedly and form the mark, and their location. Their list is simply impossible. Typically on trunks in different places there is an inscription "IP Sauer and son" or simply "Sauer". The same signs are repeated at various locations on the receiver block. On the inside of the pads and shafts as well as the butt plate is usually stamped mark of two interlaced Latin letters S and a small Latin u, which also means "Sauer and son." On the rib cut in the official government sign the stamped brand name "Sauer" - "a man with a club." But its expensive shotguns company that signs should be put not to equate them with guns series production. On trunks, bottom, such a designation can be seen as a "12/70 mm." This means that the caliber of the gun 12, and the length of the chamber - 70 mm. As for the three interlocking rings, they represent only a brand name of certain varieties of Krupp steel. Before the Second World War the firm "Sauer" used for the manufacture of Krupp steel barrel the following names: "steel receiver," "special steel receiver", "Nirosta" (stainless steel). The trunks of the "special steel receiver" and steel "Nirosta" are usually accompanied by the sign of the three interlocking rings. But, as already mentioned, many authors, nothing special Krupp steel is not represented, and to fight gun sign "three-ring" had no effect. Guns "Sauer" with trunks of steel that had the mark "three-ring", have the same fight as and shotguns with barrels of "special steel receiver" and steel "Nirosta", but the latter are more resistant to corrosion. After the Second World War and the early years of the GDR, was put on zauerovskie gun Steel "four rings". As we mentioned in our magazine ( "Fishing and hunting", 1972, number 10, p. 33), this steel 50A supplied from the USSR to the GDR. And the "three-ring" and "a man with a baton" have disappeared from the gun "Sauer". In the GDR trademark guns made in Suhl, was "a man at the anvil", in Germany - a circle with three interwoven Latin letters S. Some hunters believe that the "three-ring" can be seen when looking at the well-pureed trunks zauerovskih guns . Well, you can see three, four, five rings, but the rings are irrelevant to the brand Krupp steel have, and can be seen in net barrels of any gun if you want to clean the barrel. Let us briefly as guns "Sauer". In the pre-war catalogs firm "Sauer" he wrote: "According to its high quality and excellent design our guns can at least be placed next to the best guns in the world." No one person with this assessment does not agree. In a long list of first-class guns, which get some of our guns with the MP index and the German "Merkel" gun "Sauer" do not fall. Does this mean that the gun "Sauer" or other rifles, not trapped in the top list of the bad? In no case. Zauerovskie guns - a rifle serial production, calculated on the mass buyer. Follow these guns (as the cheapest and most expensive) high. They invested the work of highly skilled and conscientious worker. In short, zauerovskie gun - is solidly made, good working guns. People often ask, is better or worse than the modern gun "Sauer" in comparison with pre-war. Without a shadow of a doubt we can say: the modern guns have become much better. Improved technology allowed the use of more durable steel and handle parts with greater accuracy. Increased experience of armourers, a new generation of great masters. All this taken together allows to produce guns more wear resistant, more reliable, safer and more beautiful.
Source: http://sauer.net.ru/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=19&Itemid=48#klema

Cheers,
Gunwolf

GaryW #442257 04/21/16 12:04 PM
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What I find really remarkable is the different caliber: 12G on the right barrel and 16G on the left, if I see right...?

Cheers,
Gunwolf

Gunwolf #442259 04/21/16 12:33 PM
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It seems that a "machine translation" from a Russian site is not any clearer than one from a German site.
Ger,
The proof marks I see are from the period 1891-1939.The DDR adopted very similar marks, causing your confusion. The DDR used other marks that are entirely different than the 1891-1939 ones. These marks are not on the gun in question. One of these is the date stamp. DDR guns were dated, but Suhl proofed guns were not dated at the time the guns serial number indicates it was made. I believe a DDR gun would have a 70mm(2 3/4") chamber. The 12 in a circle indicates this gun has a short chamber, which is consistent with a Prussian gun. Like the others, I believe this is a proper Prussian gun.
Gunwolf
I noticed that difference also, but it looked like an 18 to me. The bore of both tubes was marked 13/1, which is common for 12ga guns.
Mike

Last edited by Der Ami; 04/21/16 12:37 PM.
GaryW #442260 04/21/16 12:34 PM
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this gun was recently sold by guns international #100688113 it has more cosmetic pictures of the gun maybe this would give a clue to its date of manuf. it is listed as a model 40. just trying to help.

GaryW #442261 04/21/16 12:38 PM
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Thanks Mike, of course you are right with the sites.. What about the two different caliber markings?

Cheers,
Gunwolf

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