doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Can anyone held identify this damascus pattern

I'm working on those marks Alex

CORRECTION: I said earlier "Rene Leclerc and Leopold Bernard were both barrel makers in Paris in the early 1700s"
THAT SHOULD BE EARLY 1800s

I would leave the gun as is. You have picked a very nice gun for a small sum and by leaving it " as is" you'd be shooting a fine gun in original condition. Also, those barrels are just as strong as any damascus barrels- they've lasted this long, no reason they won't last another 100 years. Paul

I also wouldn't refinish the barrels.

I'd say it's lower grade Chain damascus, I can see some links of chain, but there is no system.
Without Oscar it's arduous task, but definetly it's damascus and nothing in common with Bernard-I and Bernard-II Extra damascus.

Great info, I would be interested in knowing more about the marks. I'll be ordering a replacement Silvers pad and that will probably be the extent of what I do to the gun. There are no shortage of ducks in these parts and I'll make sure to put together some suitable Bismuth loads and take it out into the fields this fall.

This is the "Four Stripe- 60% Steel Good Chain Damascus" on a 1895 16g Quality No. 3 L.C. Smith. The Quality No. 3 had damascus barrels 1890-1895. Sanderson Bros. Steel Co. "Nitro" fluid steel barrels were available beginning 1895 through 1913.
"Chain" was standard on No. 2 and 3, and optional on A1 and No. 4 grade guns.



Haven't come up with any maker that would fit the 'IE' or 'JE' as yet.

I noticed something else kind of funny about these barrels, there are no proof marks that I can see. I took my Pigeon grade down and examined the barrels (which are fluid steel) and there were proof marks as one would expect, I wonder why not with this set though?

It's my understanding most American guns of that era just got the "back door proof"....stick it out the back door shoot it and if it didn't blow it passed proof.

Alex: The stylized PM and HA Co proof mark of Hunter Arms Co shown here was not in general use until about 1922. If your pre-1913 Pigeon has the mark, they are likely factory replacement barrels.

Alex:
We need to get you to join the LC Smith Collectors Association so we can get you "up to speed" now that you're "getting into" all the minutuae of Smith guns. Your Pigeon Grade is fitted with "Nitro" (most likely) or "Crown" steel barrels (could have Krupp or even Whitworth on special order); those Nitro and Crown stylized stamps you see on the bottom of the barrel tubes are in fact "trade marks", not proof marks. Actual Hunter Arms factory proof stamps did not come into general use until about 1922; then were continued thru the end of production. But you can rest assured that prior to 1922, EVERY Smith gun that ever shipped from Hunter Arms was proofed to some as yet unknown/undiscovered pressures that would have been at least equal to, or better than industry accepted standards at that time. Additionally, with the advent of smokeless powders all Smith guns were proved using the new smokeless powders from that era; and period catalogs/hang tags will occassionally be found with recommended loading data using the then most popular smokeless powders. To date, I have never recorded a single Damascus LC Smith gun with a proof marks on the barrel. One will sometimes find a barrel makers mark, or supplier's stamp on Smith Damascus tubes; but these are often totally or partially removed in the finishing process. I suspect the odds are good that your barrels would survive modern proofing using the same process Sherman Bell described in his DGJ work/experimentation (although I recommend you remove all wood furniture before attempting such experimentation yourself). As for me, I have shot many "R" (regular) framed Damascus Smith guns over the years (all 12-bores); and all I have checked had original 2 3/4" chambers. Having unsuccessfully tried to blow-up a set of badly pitted Damascus barrels using 3", 2 ounce mags (a set I intended to mono-block anyway), I no longer go to the trouble of having a set of 12-bore Smith barrels with 2 3/4" chambers, and in sound condition proofed; I'm just careful to use hand-loads under 8,000 PSI. So far I still have all my fingers.