doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Can anyone held identify this damascus pattern

Mark: this is the 1897-1898 Price Sheet for both the barrel and fitting by Ferdinand Drissen, a Liege gun maker http://www.littlegun.be/arme%20belge/artisans%20identifies%20d/a%20drissen%20gb.htm
You'll see several grades of 'Bernard' listed.
The conversion of Belgian francs to U.S. dollars in 1900 was about 5 francs to 1 dollar.

Alex,

Here is the link to the serial number page:
http://doublegunshop.com/dgsnos5.htm

It appears to me that there maybe a mark on the barrels close to the barrel flats. If so, that could be the mark of the barrel maker.

1907 picture of the barrel maker's guild.


Pete

I have quite a few Laminated and Damascus and have also browned quite a few. THis is the most unusual that I have seen. It is similar to an 1895 Vintage LC Smith (Trap Gun) but the ends of the steel are more predominate.It seems to be one of the great and unusual Belgium laminated patterns and I am guessing it is a lower grade Bernard laminated steel.

I know Stallones fully understands this, but just so there is no confusion over terms:

Belgium Laminated Steel is usually just Twist on a double, which was given a 'British' name and marketed to the US.


British Laminated Steel is something else entirely, was made in England, and was very high quality damascus


Rene Leclerc and Leopold Bernard were both barrel makers in Paris in the early 1700s, and each developed a method of damascus (which is indeed laminated iron and steel) production with specific patterns which were named after them, and which many Belgian firms manufactured.

This is very interesting, but I do have a question. Would it have been more likely that this particular gun was just, by chance, fitted with these barrels to get them out of inventory, or would LC Smith have specially fit these barrels based on a customers desire?

This also brings about another question, I don't have the cash right now to pay to have this gun restored; however, down the road it would be possible. How wise would it be to have this even done? Basically it has survived the ages in pretty fine shape, minus the Hawkins butt pad that was installed. Originally I just thought it was an O grade Smith with slightly strange damascus barrels, now I'm starting to realize that it is a bit more unusual, is it ethical to start making changes to its existing finish when there really are very few problems with it right now?

Either of the above reasons why this gun has slightly different barrels could be the actual case (we will never know at this point); other possibilities are that these tubes could have been an odd set "tossed in" by a barrel tube suppier to fill the order, they may have been obtained by purchasing the assests of a defunct maker, they could have been left-overs from the LC Smith Syracuse buyout, etc. Further, and something else to consider, since this is an odd set of tubes, the original purchaser may have received a discount on the gun (as opposed to paying a premium) simply because these barrels were slightly out of grade. Personlly I believe these barrels are some type of laminated steel (which was used on some early Syracuse made Smiths, although I have not seen this particular pattern before); but the primary point to remember with your gun is that these old makers, Hunter included, just didn't waste materials; whatever was useable was used in some fashion to generate revenue!
As to restoration, for all I know the gun is "mint" but the photos show mostly used and faded finishes. If you're happy with the gun as is; then leave it as is and enjoy same. The point I attempted to make earlier is that these barrels, as good as they appear at the moment, would be stunning properly restored in all their original black and white glory. AS to restoration, if you ever choose that course, make sure you have it done by a real pro that (1) knows the correct restoration techniques and finishes appropriate for a period double gun, and (2)that you restore the gun to what would have been period correct options and appearance for this grade (i.e. don't gold-plate the triggers, don't dress-up the checkering patterns, etc). If you did have the gun restored and elected to install such niceties as double ivory rib beads, a Silvers (or even leather pad), and a silver name shield; such items would have been original period options within that grade, so would not appear out of place, and (properly done) would improve the finished appearance of the gun. Would it be cost effective to have such a restoration? Almost assuredly not. If this were the typical damascus barreled 0E or 1E would I restore the gun were it mine? Absolutely not (this one is just a bit more special). Is it unethical to restore the gun? Certainly not as long as (1) you don't respresent the gun as having original finishes; and (2) you have any restoration work correctly done (it would be a sacriledge to let some crank butcher an otherwise great example). Best, and thanks for sharing your interesting Smith gun.

The pattern looks suspect to me...as far as strength goes.

I guess I don't know about the strenght factor, I have shot most of my damascus guns including this one the other day. I was using 1 1/8 oz loads behind 70 grains of 2fg Goex and didn't encounter any ill effects. This load should work fine for pheaseants or ducks over decoy this fall.

Alex: As Pete suggested, are there any letters stamped on the bottom of the brls or the brl flats? If so, we might be able to identify the maker. For instance: GDH would be Delcour Herket, a J superimposed on a D would be Jean Duchateau, LD is Lambert Dumoulin, or a three-lobed crown over a D is the mark of Jean-Baptiste Delcour-Dupont. Unfortunately, those marks were frequently lost in the fit and finish process.
Distributors also stamped barrels, the most commonly found being SD&G for Schoverling, Daly & Gales, New York City

The only markings, other than the serial number, that I can see is a large E and there is also what appears to be either a J or an I in front of the E.

Here is a picture of these marks, though it isn't the greatest.