doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Foss & Co.

I handled a Foss & Co. hammer gun, side by side, Saturday, that was for sale at the gun range where we were shooting a S x S sporting clays event. It is a big, damascus waterfowl gun ..... I mean big ....... and heavy. Very good condition for an old waterfowler, and IMO totally original finishes on wood and metal. It is a cased gun with a full complement of accessories. It must weigh between 9 and 10 lbs., just a guess.

When the range owner saw me looking it over he showed me something interesting. The chambers are a VERY loose fit for a 12 ga. shell. I looked at the forcing cones and realized the chambers were also very long. I attempted to "measure" them without the use of a machinist scale, which is what I normally use, and came up with at least 3" chambers. The f. cone was cut with a "step". The barrel flats were stamped 13 and 14, don't recall which was which. It looked very British to me.

I found a couple references to a Foss gunmaker in Chicago at about the time period this gun was built. There was a letter with the gun, written by the current owner, that mentions his belief that the gun was actually built by Atkin, IIRC.

Anybody have any thoughts as to why, with undersized 12 ga. bores, the chamber would be such a loose fit for a regular 12 ga. shell? Were there ever any 11 ga. guns built in England, or 11 ga. ammo available?

I can get more info on the gun for anybody that might be interested, or like to know more about it.

All my best, SRH

I bet it was made for the old thin brass case. If you notice the headstamps say 10 - 12 and the other 12- 14. Lagopus.....

what were the proof marks? Birmingham? London? other?

the step shoulder in the forcing cone may indicate a chamber for brass shells as Lagopus says, there were a couple sizes of 12 ga brass

pictures please


where is the poster with the "this thread is worthless without pictures" emoticon

When I noted I owned a 16 gauge Tobin with forcing "steps" the usual suspects here posted I was "Crazy", "Hallucinating", "Imagining Things", and what not. I don't know why they were there, and the gun had extra full chokes in both barrels when I got it.

Stan Baker made proper cones and opened it to skeet and modified chokes. It was a sweet grouse gun, after that.

Nobody could tell me what the "steps" were for, or what ammunition they worked with.

Best,
Ted

i thought they were there to match the mouth of the brass shell and the theory was it would give a better gas seal for the fiber wads during the transition

The English made something nearly chamber-less called the Altro? gun. If I remember correctly it was designed to be used with thin metal cased shells.

Your explaination makes as much sense as any I have heard. I just wanted to see something a little more concrete, perhaps an explaination in a period catalog, or from a European proof house, something other than speculation.

And ridicule.


Best,
Ted

?????????????

No, not you, dude. The post on the Tobin took place years ago, long enough ago that some of the participants are no longer with us.

I never did get an answer. It didn't matter, the gun with Stan Baker's bore work was a superb upland gun, and has a new owner. I just would have liked to have known for sure, at the time, what the steps and bore were made for, as far as ammunition, and use.

Best,
Ted

Would expect this gun to have a Purdey thumb-opener
Chicago -earley 1870's-would love to have details
I am interested
Thanks
Bill McPhail