doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Verney Carron St Ettiene - 12 bore

I picked up a 12 gauge SxS this past week. Its a Verney Carron. About all I could figure out about it is that it was made after 1923. Maybe you guys can fill me in with some more info. It has a unique action. Ejectors are in the receiver and it has 3 unique locking lugs. The lever works in a unique manor as well. The pivot point is not in the center as usual its on the left side, so as the lever is moved to the left the whole lever pulls away from the barrels and moves the locking lugs back into the receiver. I think its pretty neat. Let me know what you all think/know about the gun. Its got 26" barrels and weighs 6.2#'s





















[img]http://i87.photobucket.com/albums/k...j8uq.jpeg[/img]

Really neat! Beautiful, unusual gun. I'm a recent admirer of French guns.

The buttplate is the same one used on later O/U versions of the Sagittaire. I don't have any older Verney Carron catalogs, and don't know if there was ever a SXS with that name.
The bores measured 18.4mm, (typical 12 gauge) 9" from the breech, when it was submitted for proof. It was proofed with French powder T, and was proofed as a finished gun. The little stars tell you the chokes in the barrels when the gun was built, they may have been altered.
It is chambered for 2 3/4" ammunition.
Use it in good health.

Best,
Ted

As I said French guns can be quite interesting. This is a nice sample. Does the firing mechanism cock on closing?

That's a pretty modern VC. Double St. Etienne proof. I'm pretty sure the twin lumps weren't used on VC's until relatively recently. Certainly well post-WWII.

Is this gun modern enough to shoot 1 1/4oz 1350fps Pheasant loads?

Yikes!! I flinched when I read that!!

You don't have any problems.
It seems it's the version Helicobloc from Verney-Carron, manufactured during 1950th, proofed with 1100kg/cm� = 15635psi,
right barrel ***** = cylinder, no choke
left barrel *** = 1/2 choke.
1 1/4 oz lead shot 2,5mm (No.7), 1350fps in a 12 x 70mm cardridge is a normal load to hunt pheasants,I do it every year in autumn.
With steel shot you will have problems with the barrels.

I shoot similar 1 1/8 loads from my 6# 16 gauge. I wouldn't want to shoot a round of skeet with them, but a few while pheasant hunting are not that bad.

I just wanted to know if I needed some extra oomph late in the season if the gun could handle that.

Btw the recoil energy in that set up would be about 38.5 ft#s 10 ft#s less than my standard goose set up. In no way am I saying those numbers are pleasant. However I do handle those goose loads fine.

Thanks for the info. I am curious how you determined the manufacture date?

Completely agree Larry. This is very recent "Jubile" model, more than likely less than 30 years old. I looked at their web site, but they don't seem to make SXSs anymore (at least under the V-C brand).
This model was clearly made for automated machine production (not like there is anything wrong with that).
Best regards,
WC-

They still make SxS, but only custom orders.

If it's a Helicobloc, it doesn't look like any I've seen previously. And I've certainly never seen one with twin lumps.

I have a V-C catalog from 1999. It looks like the "Rustic" model from V-C's Jet line of sxs, but the photos of the Rustic aren't detailed enough to tell for sure. At that time, V-C was marketing two types of sxs: Jet and Helux. They state that the guns are made for them in the European union. The Helux definitely looks German. Harder to tell with the Jet. My initial thought was Spanish, but in the case of the original poster's gun, that doesn't seem to fit either. I haven't seen anything out of Spain using those twin parallel lumps.

Unless the 1/2 or mod choke is tighter than one would expect, I'd guess that it would be OK with steel as large as US 4's, if you had to use steel in the gun. It does have the double proof, so pressure should not be an issue.

Cannot remember the model name but it was the standard VC double in the 1980s. I recall the dealer telling me that it used the same spring to power hammers and ejectors.

Here is a photo of the unique lever in action. is this what you are all referring to as a helicobloc?

No, that's not it. The top lever in your gun appears to push on a rod which protrudes from the breech face. That's not a design feature of a Helice or Helicobloc gun. The 1922 V-C catalog shows the design of the "Helice Grip" compared to the locking mechanism of an "ordinary triple bolt" system. The Helice Grip has 4 pieces while its competitor has 7. Basically a question of being simpler while also being sufficiently strong. After V-C's patent expired, many other French guns were made using the same design.