doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Italian made Winchester paper flyer loads

I was recently gifted a couple of boxes of 12ga. Winchester "Super-Speed Paper" shotshells. These are in gray colored flat boxes of ten each w/the large red 'W' logo. They bear CIP marking on the box and the flap says WW DN 50 AG & CIP 04022. Shot weight is specified in ounces(1&1/4oz.)& length in inches (2&3/4"). Shells are red paper w/6 point pie crimp and high brass plated steel heads (T-4, by Italian standards or 20mm). Paper portion of shells is marked w/the large 'W' w/'Super-speed paper' superimposed on it, also shot size is printed three time below that and '70mm' in the middle of a lateral line on one side and 'Winchester' on the other. There is no marking as to their DE or velocity. Carton/box is marked 'made in Italy'. Has a warning printed in English on one side about not submerging them in water(HA!), the usual admonitions on safety, some comments about reloading and a cap's warning to 'DO NOT USE IN DAMASCUS OR TWIST BARRELS' and has a lead warning printed on the other side, also in English.

I'm thinking they were made just before Italy banned flyer shooting, but not positive since helice were being shot w/flyer loads (36 gram or 1&1/4oz.) for a long while after the conversion was made. Anyone know when these particular shells were being made? And does anyone know what wad was used in them and if the base wad was paper or plastic? Idle curiosity on my part. I'm not inclined to cut one apart to find out. Thanks!

You might try posting your questions here --

http://cartridgecollectors.org/?page=forum

Posting some pictures of the shells and boxes would help.

Thank you, Researcher,

A quick search at the suggested site says they are at least post 1963 because of the warning on the carton. It did not appear there is any specific information on these particular cartridges. I do know that at one time [early to mid 70's?]some Winchester AA CF cartridges were being made and marketed in Europe, inclusive of the Super Pigeon loads & I believe these cartridges are their predecessors. Cartridges packaged in 'tens' were common for sale by the clubs hosting shoots. That type of packaging for competition flyer rounds is not seen much here.

Just picked up on this. The vast amount of Winchester shotgun ammo imported into the U.K. is made in Italy. They did list a paper case until quite recently. There are 2 1/2" 12 bore and 20 bore loads and also ones with felt wads also in boxes of 10, 25 and 150. There are some 30 odd listed in various shot sizes and calibres; try 'Special Migratuer' No. 9 shot 2 1/2" 12 bore for shooting songbirds (probably for the Italian market). 'Special Crows' they can be bought in packs of 25 or 100 in 4 or 6 shot. How about 'ZZ Pigeon'. 'Special Canard' steel in boxes of 25 and 150. 'Streukreuz' (Spreader load). Also 'Parcours' special long range. They even do a 16 bore load. Lagopus.....