doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Back-boring tubes to lighten them?

Keith:

I have access to a good barrel measurement tool and I am fairly conservative about such things. I knew about Ithaca Flues guns having a reputation for cracking, but didn't know that they were prone to having barrel bursts(?). I suspect that many Flues guns have been subjected to overloading issues over the years, as a direct result of the ignorance of their owners. Short chambers being unwisely lengthened (or not) and then used with modern 2 3/4-inch shells, combined with foolhardy and/or uncaring (dense?) owner/operators have sped the demise of many older guns. Having grown up near to your part of the world, I'm sure you can picture some of the denizens about which I'm thinking. Some of the charactors in the movie "Deliverence" come to mind.

At the top of the stairs in my Grandfather's house stood a gun cabinet. It had been built in the carpenter's shop at Polk State School & Hospital, out of locally sourced black cherry (I'm sure there's a story associated with it, but if I ever heard it I simply don't remember). It now stands in my gun room. This gun will be the first Ithaca (and...as you seem to have surmised, it is a Flues) in it since his passing back in the early 90s. The last gun I saw him use in the uplands was an 20-gauge Ithaca as well (in the early 70s), but it got away from me before I could appreciate and identify it (I'm guessing it was an NID, but I don't really know). This gun appears to be an honest, unaltered example, from 1917 w/2 1/2-inch chambers. It is reportedly a bit heavy for it's type (6lbs1) so I'd like to see if I could safely make some improvements. If not, I'll use appropriate (short & light) loads and see how it fits in the battery here.

It's not that I don't understand since I'm more than aware of the decades that passed before I finally overcame the Sow's Ear Syndrome. So what it boils down to is if you don't have what you want, flip the what you have and GET what you do want.

As far as the weight savings anticipated here go I can remove a Speedmaster wrist watch (3.75oz on the postal scale) and ID bracelet (obviously an unbalancing weight in the grip hand, innit?) and take care of that. If you already have light barrels do you feel the added weight of an added wristwatch??

Not to mention the next fool that owns this gun and drops a 3"mag in there since he certainly knows it's OK as the meatheads here have assured him that is perfectly fine to use too long carts in too short chambers.

Some people need a serious reality check

have another day
Dr.WtS

Dr. WtS:

Sound and reasoned words indeed. My station in life has forced me to modify many a Sow's Ear. This, however will not be one of them. My motivation here is purely nostalgic, tinged with minor practicality. I simply wanted a lightweight American double gun and was not willing to mortgage the house (I effectively swapped-in two silk purses to secure it). This unit has Krupp fluid-steel tubes that have, seemingly, remained unmolested until now. Any changes I make (if at all) will be very deliberate and cautious. The next guy in line, however, will need to exercise as much caution as I do, I fear. Caveat Emptor.

I had Stan Baker's shop back bore a 20 gauge several years ago. It had very heavy barrels/hence crappy balance. Just as an experiment, I had .020 taken out of the barrels, leaving still around 30 thou wall thickness. Still didn't quite balance the gun, but it took 4-1/2 ounces off the barrels.

Watch your wall thickness, but back boring does remove weight.

Lloyd,
6 lbs and a little change is a pretty nice weight for a lot of different upland guns, gauge not even being considered.
One of the guys here spouts the mantra "do nothing but shoot it for a year before you modify anything" and, with each passing day, it is a mantra that makes a lot of sense to me.
Hey, I am a sows ear guy in successful recovery, and, save a little Baker Batavia Brush in 16 gauge, that a friend owns, (that calls at me like a siren) have been fighting off those American double gun demons for a good spell of time now, and I believe I am a better man for it. It does seem like what I actually want won't be gotten with the many piles of accumulated sows ears I have, and what I want has a nasty habit of changing over time. The day when I thought there was simply no need for anything save the Remington model 17 I owned is but a distant memory.
If my wallet could speak, it would definitely concur.
Shoot the gun a while, Lloyd. The changes of which you speak are not easily undone.

Best,
Ted

Evening Ted!

I had figured on spending some time with it even after I had it measured, for exactly the reasons you mention. I have also definitely noticed my tastes changing over time as well. Learn, grow, change seems to be the normal life-cycle for most of us. Or is it "read, learn, covet & then change?" I seem to have exhausted some of my learning options of late, causing me to re-evaluate some of the lesser variants (Sow's Ears?) in my current battery (lesser mostly in the sense that I'm not using them much anymore). Perhaps I've watched one too-many Larry Potterfield videos on YouTube, but this sounded like an interesting and "relatively" (dangerous word) affordable project, largely because of some wonderful local resources I can easily utilize.

Change is mostly good, as long as you aren't changing back to where you started, after a long and expensive bit of lusting.

You've kept a pump gun or two, right?

Just checking.

Best,
Ted

This idea is preposterous. I like some of you, so I won't call it idiotic.
I for the life of me can't understand why no one has said so yet.

The most overbored barrels being sold I know of are Mossberg 835 barrels at .781. Do your math, and figure out if wads will seal in cold weather, and what your theoretical savings is. Presuming perfect concentricity.
Then, Look at Dr Drew's barrel segments picture. Look closely at how they are struck. Between the striking off of the outside taper,the lack of concentricity, and inability to remove material between the barrels, you are embarking on an effort that H&H struggles to do with raw stock and aerospace equipment.

You will destroy a set of vintage barrels unnecessarily, and waste a good sum of money in the effort.

If you want a Flues with light tubes, buy one, there are tons of ripply ones floating around. Have them restruck to remove the belt sander finishing, and redo the chokes. I've posted picks of a light and a heavy here before.
Of course then, after recontouring a set of vintage barrels you have permanent anxiety over what rounds you feed it.

Yet for about $350.00 you could buy one made that way initially.

Ted:

The ones that fit my needs, absolutely. I do have some redundancy in my pile, however, and.....the pendulum is swinging back towards the things that kindled my interests in doubles in the first place. Especially the ones that do a wonderful job in the uplands without any (or very little) pretense. It's all about fit, weight & balance for me anymore. I still appreciate the art and history of "best" guns, but....their hold on me has diminished some-what. Economics plays into it, certainly, but utility is a big part of it too. Anything too-valuable lacks utility for me. I'm simply too worried about it to fully enjoy it.

ClapperZapper:

I appreciate your restraint, and I do recognize the risks here. But.... I'm counting on the good advice and skills of a competent smith. And really.....what's the difference between a British boxlock (or a "Best" gun for that matter) that has been honed beyond redemption, and a "relatively" inexpensive (i.e., largely mass-produced) vintage field-grade American gun? American guns don't get the type of attention (excessive barrel polishing) that British guns get because of the perceived and real (here) value differences. If I can help this gun, I will. If I can't, I'll continue to search for a lighter version. However, I think your numbers might be a bit dated. $350 doesn't buy much of anything decent anymore, not even many good pumpguns. I am talking pre-WWII sub-gauge guns here.