Found an old box of the bismuth stuff. Is marked Bismuth Cartridge Company, Van Nys, CA. No mention of Winchester anywhere but state "Made in England". Loads I was shooting were 1 1/4 of sixes. Actually gave away over a dozen boxes, 6 of which were 3"ers, some of which were buffered. These I know were size 4. The rest were 2 3/4" mags in size 4 and 5. Stan, I really don't think you would want that stuff...it kinda acted like the pellets fractured upon firing thus my remark about very small shot. I have since moved but I guess I need to call my friend and ask him if he ever used them and the results.