doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion Classic & Custom Single Barreled Sporting Rifles @ doublegunshop.com Modern vs. original 'Walls?

I guess that is why there is more than one color car and one happy woman in the world.
Mike

Yes, it's wonderful that there are many choices, or versions of the old High Wall 1885. I only wish the same was true for other old single shot rifles! There seem to be lots of Sharps '74 clones, a few Rolling Block clones, and some Hepburns also. Of course we have CPA to thank for some wonderful 44 1/2 clones. But there's still a gaping hole for what could be offered for many other great single shot rifles.

Vall, what do you feel is the reason why the Ballard rebirth hasn't been successful?

Personally, I wouldn't kick a modern clone out of bed for eating crackers. If, on the other hand, I were spending serious money on a custom "classic" build I would prefer it to be done on an original.

The argument of clone vs. original can be illustrated by the replica car movement too. Is a Factory 5 roadster really a 427 Cobra? Same white knuckled performance?- check. Same styling?- check. Same car?- nope. Cost a small fraction of an original 427?- check. (My BIL built a Factory 5, and he has scared me silly with it.)

Would you kick the top one in this picture out of bed?



kinda harsh I think, but your loss. I'd wager you couldn't tell it was a clone until you went searching for the Winchester label.

Brent, i think you mis-read my words! (And no, I wouldn't kick the top one out of bed!)

I musta. Sorry about that. I like my clone, she wins and looks good doing it.

Well from the earliest Red Willow, to the later Ballard Rifle Co. reincarnations, there were huge improvements! The Red Willow looked similar, but wasn't an exacting copy. The BRC Ballards are exacting copies, and even at fairly high prices, they enjoyed great success, and sold well. Then in 2007 the company was purchased by a Michigan man, and moved to Onstead, Mi. At that point two things happened, which I believe spelled doom for the Ballard. First the move didn't include any key players working at the previous company. Those individuals who were key to the success of BRC all stayed in Wyoming, or moved back to Colorado. There was a huge source of talent and expertise lost to the new owner.
Then to make things worse, the new owner raised the prices significantly. After that there seemed to be a lack of interest, and things began to falter. I've heard from people who dealt with the new company in Mi. and said they were wonderful people to talk with. But the follow up was terrible. Things like ignoring requests for parts, not cashing checks for work done, or just totally ignoring emails and phone calls. It almost sounds like a death wish, the way it all failed so quickly?
I wish at this point one of the big US companies making quality clones of Sharps and Winchesters would somehow purchase the company, and take over the making of Ballards. Or possibly someone like Pedersoli even! If it was done properly, and kept true to the original, I'd be pleased, no matter who did them!

Vall, thanks that was very informative. Do you know who owns it now? I had heard it moved back west but I do not know if that is viable info or not.

Two more "1885" manufacturers that I dug up are Serrafile and Clerke. I believe that both have been out of the 'Wall business for many years. Anybody have any knowledge of their products? Quality? Interchangeable with Winchester parts?

If my memory serves me, several of the failed US "1885" makers made rifles with rimless chamberings, apparently hoping to adapt the virtues of the original to the favorite cartridges of the era.

It seems to me that only the Miroku-made "1885s" have succeeded in this effort. Apparently there are two markets for the 'Wall: one is people who want the nearest thing to an original Winchester that they can get, including a rimmed cartridge chambering, and the second is people who want rifle with the action and some of the aesthetics of the original, but with the balance, weight, and chamberings of a contemporary rifle.

So we get two distinct classes of contemporary manufactured 'Walls: near-clones of the original with long, heavy "black powder" barrels and chamberings (Ballard, C. Sharps, and Meecham), and slimmer, lighter modifications of the original with "modern" rimless chamberings (Miroku "Low Walls," and some earlier attempts, now extinct).

And thank God for the latter category, which helps keep people from chopping and channeling original Winchesters into re-barreled, restocked, rechambered hybrid whizz-bang monsters, as happened so often in the late '40s and all thru the '50s!