And certainly you're entitled to that opinion, which I know is shared by many! (I assume you don't consider "Winchesters" made by Miroku as real Winchesters....).

The maker in Idaho I was forgetting is Meecham; one of the others is Falling Block Works. But I suspect I'm still missing somebody, and also would still like to know if there were other foreign "1885" makers besides the two I cite. Pedersoli? Were any foreign copies made during the US Winchester manufacture of the 1885?

And does anybody think that the number of clones, take-offs and other 1885 knock offs made since 1920 equals the number (around 140,000) made by Winchester before that?