doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com New to SXS's ?????

I just read the thread started by nhcrowshooter Re.Baker Batavia and the links provided.As I did'nt wish to hijack it I've started a new one.
I 'm afraid as a new to SxS's guy I've gone into information overload.The first of my concerns has unfortunately been strengthened and that was of Stock to Receiver integrity.(Great Pic's in the links to other posts)
I would appreciate any links to past posts with regard to the transition from Steel to Wood on an old SXS as I'm sure it's been discussed here before and I will glean from reading some valuable info.This looks to me as a very vunerable area.I'm not sure if this is a place to start,but I do know that nothing can render a good gun to unusable status quicker than a wood failure.
I appreciate the wealth of knowledge here and thank you for the opportunity to learn.Regards;ST

Certainly a concern and maybe moreso in a fancy feathered, crotch-grained piece than in a chunk of strait-grained birch. However, too many stocks have been made to do with wire-wrapped grips and tierods thru spreading cheeks and shot long after chunks of the head have sheered off to allow me to believe that nothing renders a gun inoperable faster than stock failure. Blown barrels, hammers that don't cock, and firing pins that don't light em up make guns inoperable. Rickety stocks don't do this and even if in two pieces, the operation of the gun is made inconvenient and perhaps in some cases dangerous but not impossible. One illustration of this is in the number of wood-stocked pumpguns razeed to pistol grip.

Interlocking of the stock head to the frame on doubleguns by use of keys or "rebates" (high-grade Foxes and Ithaca Flues) appear to me to do a fairly good job of preventing spreading of the cheeks so to speak. Perhaps a scalloped back tends to limit displacement of tangs and stock heads in the vertical. Well-cured and long-grain wood in the area of the inletting and grip also contribute to longevity under load as do provisions to avoid wedging action of tangs and lockplates.

jack

sothere,

If I get your question concerning older guns and their stocks and referencing the earlier post, I would offer that old wood drys out and sidelock guns have less wood, in the area you mention, than box locks. Heavy use of an older sxss could get exspensive unless you have a talent for rapping wire. Personnally, even if I get a gem at a steal I feel robbed if I break it doing something silly. I have a very very small ding in the left barrel of a L.C.Smith that wasn't there when I bought it, have know idea how I put it there and it p-s-s me off everytime I look at it cause I know I did it somehow!

Best to you,

Kurt

Kurt makes a good point about expense of good restocking. I saw a Hunter Arms L. C. Smith Fri. nite which had been restocked by Mr. Average Guy. Wasn't checkered and looked a bit amateurish despite a pretty decent bearing on the lockplates but someone had really buried the rear tang screw such that it protruded from the top tang and the safety was inoperable. Inletting a bit deep probably invited this. So stocks are important in other ways besides whether they crack or pieces chip off.

The pix on the Baker AKA This is Cinerama thread illustrate some departure of wood from metal and also the creative use of a church key or some such to pry out lockplates.

jack

Thanks for the replies,although I still would appreciate some links to prior threads here or elsewhere.I'm going to purchase an entry level gun in 16 Ga.and would prefer a true sidelock action over a boxlock but that's mainly from a visual preference.
Stock failure is my main concern and how to spot potential problems besides the obvious cracks,oil soaking,and movement is where I seek info.Whats happening ahead of the wood can be addressed later and I feel confident about being able to spot an honest,well cared for gun."Bubba" existed long before me but evidence of his handiwork has'nt changed much over the years.Unfortunately he did'nt limit his endevours(SP)to just firearms,he just seemed to prefer them.Thanks :ST

You'll find some catastrophic 'stock failures', some post Land Rover encounter, on the 'Repairs and Restorations' PictureTrail, and pics of miraculous methods for making them whole again
http://www.picturetrail.com/gallery/view?p=999&gid=15127852

Shotgun Technicana , Michael MacIntosh & David Trevallion, a collection of articles from Shooting Sportsman Magazine, has material on the amazing "butt transplant". Of course, Bubba may have it also. There have been many threads about removing lube oil from stock heads with whiting or by immersion in acetone; I don't think they're archived here but someone will provide you with a copy. From what you say, you appear intent on avoiding DIY rather than stepping in it so this material may not be of use in vetting possible buys.

jack

Per Wonko the Sane
"Get a disposable aluminum roaster pan at the supermarket that is large enough for the stock. Stop by your Home Depot or whatever and get a gallon of acetone and a gallon of alcohol. If the stock has a plastic finish you might want a can of some paste stripper too. Use that first if the outside finish requires it. If the stock has a varnish or oil finish the acetone will lift that with no problem. Then toss the stock in the roaster and pour in the acetone (it will also neutralize the paste stripper). Cover the wood until it floats. Then pull off a good length of aluminum foil and make a cover for the "tank", sealing it as well as possible. Be aware that acetone is highly volatile and smoking the cigar over the top of it is not recommended. I let the things soak for several days, turning the wood over a couple times a day. When you feel like you're tired of that, and the acetone looks like it has quit changing color, pour the acetone back in the can, rinse the roaster out with alcohol, and then soak the stock in the alcohol just like you did in the acetone. When you yank the baby out of the alcohol bath it will be CLEAN! And you can seal it and refinish it anyway you want after you let it dry a couple days."

Chuck H's "Butt transplant" pics are on the PictureTrail also.

Sothere:

Just ocurred to me that "incipient" failure of wood may be gun specific to a degree; i.e., some makes may be notorious for one deficiency in integrity or another. For example, Smiths have lockplates which are not champfered at the edges (square-edged and set in square-shouldered mortise)and cracking behind the plates is commonly seen. Lefevers (not a sidelock but inletted to a degree as if it were) show up with bits of wood sheered off adjacent to the top tang and fences. Fairly common in boxlocks also; perhaps stocks which are not tight or have differential bearing of the stock head or horns on the action back or fences and/or are shot with heavy loads are prone to breaks there. No matter how strait-grained the wood and despite any possible orientation of long-grain in the head, the run of grain at the top of the head is interrupted by the dip or valley which is the shape of the head and grip back to the thumbhole or beginning of the comb. Toes of stock are vulnerable for the same reason (easier to split a bolt of firewood 18" long than it is to split a tree end to end). The inclusion of knots in stock or forend is a potential source of drying cracks. The failure I dislike and distrust the most is an incipient crack running perpendicular to the grain one or both sides of the inletting at the wrist--what would be called in some quarters a "weather check" (sometimes caused by wind or felling damage while the stick is still in the timber but likely also caused by the inability of a very thin-walled stock exterior to flex without fracture upon firing the gun). This one won't remain "incipient".

Careful selection of stock blanks, ingenious design and painstaking execution limit the mechanical stress on a non-homogenous material but don't eliminate it. Nature of the beast.

jack