doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Don Zutz

In my teens I read Guns and Ammo religiously. Back then Old Elmer had a monthly column and I absolutely devoured everything he wrote. Elmer Keith was directly responsible for the first gun I bought with own money after turning 18, a Marlin 1895 in 45-70. I didn't weigh but about 170 then and that thing some kind of pushed me around. Its been almost 40 years now and I still have it. I haven't tried to kill anything toothy with it, but should the opportunity present it self.....I figure I'm equipped to handle it. Mergus

I read Zutz's book, whatever it was, and found it to be a labor. Some of his ideas were more religious than rational to him (and I'm not knocking anyone's religion), but his poor grasp of physics got in the way. He was a good shooter, but I don't see where that translated to being a good writer or knowing how and why things work. I threw the book away when I got to the end.

I liked Zutz. He championed doubles when they were starting to resurge. Wonko has a point that he did some banal reviews of production guns; however, that was probably required for him to stay in print. A guy who championed the 3.5 inch 10 can't be all bad, Elmer would have approved.

Dr. Sane,
I have used a 20 gauge, on and off, for most of 40 years to kill all kinds of birds here in the midwest. Mr. Hill refered to the 20 as "Bitey" and preferred a 28, from my somewhat fuzzy recollection of his writings.
I always believed that if a 20 was "bitey" to you, you needed a heavier 20, or a lighter round of 20 gauge ammunition, or, maybe both, but, not necessarily a 28 gauge.

I'd just as soon not be beaten with a stick for that belief. I did shoot a really miserable round of skeet with a 20 gauge today, followed by a better one with a 12. I'm a little (lot, likely) rusty, and don't shoot my best when I'm shivering, anyway.

Happy New Year, Wonko. May your banjos all be in tune.

Best,
Ted

Hear, hear! Well spoken, indeed!

Ted - Mr. Newton says that charge weight for charge weight and gun weight for gun weight, bitey is as bitey does.
Perhaps a light weight stick for you hahaha

I�ve never had a 20ga
I never hope to have one
All I need�s a simple 12
In all the cosmos topped by none


have another day
Dr.WtS

Writing about shooting is a lot like writing about having sex. It's far better to be actually doing it. And usually the people who write best about it are not the best at doing it.

Re: WDMBell....as noted, his goal was to kill elephants, not get them charging first. Not only was he an excellent shot, he also spent a lot of time studying the skull of the elephant to know just where to place his bullet. To Bell, a small caliber rifle was easier to carry and aim and the much lower recoil meant he could shoot it at will - and do a lot more practice shooting. Same applies to ammo - cheaper, easier to get, and easier to carry in bulk.

James, it seems to me that cherry bomb has changed his tune... It has evolved to include whining and crying. But certainly nothing remotely involving Double guns. I believe you are correct. I cannot recall even one post from cherry bomb that was positive, informative, or contributed even one sub-atomic particle of double-gun knowledge. It does appear that cherry bomb may have had a bad or frightening experience with a Pennsylvania deer hunter though. I am making a New Years Resolution to try to find at least some good in everyone. So I will say that at least cherry bomb has not posted any liberal anti-gun crap... yet.

I judge an author by how compelled I feel to re-read his books. I have two of Don Zutz' books in my library and liked them, but I have never re-read them. In contrast, I just finished reading Bell's "Karamojo Safari" for at least the third or fourth time.

Well . . . we're talking GROUSE hunters here, weight being an important factor because you end up doing a fair amount of one-hand carrying if you're actually in the woods where the birds live. Easier to find a light 20 than a light 12, and you certainly don't need more than an ounce of shot to kill a grouse. The same statistics that showed the 20 to be the choice of over half the grouse hunters who responded also showed that the 28ga has gained significantly in popularity with those who chase woods birds, compared to surveys conducted back in the 80's--which would indicate that even 3/4 ounce works well for many hunters. The surge in interest among grouse hunters is likely due to the fact that most 28's back then were skeet guns, and while skeet chokes are fine for grouse, skeet gun weight is not. Parker Repro showed up in the 80's, and the Spanish started sending a lot more 28ga doubles our way.

The problem with the 16--which has also shown a modest gain in popularity with grouse hunters over the last 3 decades--is that it's not one of the "official" gauges in competition skeet. Therefore, the ammo companies don't crank out 16ga shells in good, reloadable hulls. And, like with 28's, the shells are more expensive than either 20's or 12's--or at least they have been until Cabela's started selling some pretty nice Herters-branded 16's. But just plain not a lot of 16ga guns out there in comparison to 20's, and never will be. Yet whenever Browning stops making Citori 16's, some volume dealer will come along and say they should make more of them--and Browning will do another special run. And they don't stay on the shelves for very long.

I don't recall which of his books it is, but I still like the part where Bell describes the natives' somewhat unusual behavior.... He would set up camp near a village and befriend the natives. When he would go out to hunt, anything he left behind - no matter how well hidden and/or locked up - would be stolen immediately by the villagers. It wasn't something they did with any malice - they just took it all. This got very frustrating until he figured out that he could simply leave everything unsecured and it would all be there when he returned. The difference? He would entrust the care of the goods to one of the natives. Having done so, no one would touch them.

Larry thanks for your comments about 16's. I would have thought it obvious to most of us that a huge reason for the relative lack of popularity of the 16 is it not being an official skeet gun and the resulting lack of reasonably priced shells.