doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com California gun transfer

Then what is this?


I am not an FFL but I want to ship a firearm to a California FFL. Do I have to obtain a Firearms Shipment Approval number before shipping a firearm to California?

No. Only shipments from Federal Firearms Licensees (FFL) require a Firearms Shipment Approval number

I think a transfer between residents of different States has to go through an FFL under the 1968 Gun Control Act. As I understand the California law, an individual may ship to a Ca. FFL without registering with the Cal. DOJ. Out of State FFLs have to register.

Relationship is irrelevant. Father could certainly travel to Ca. and visit his son's local FFL and complete the transfer that way. Otherwise son is going to be holding an illegally transferred gun...Geo

When I'm using a CA dealer that I'm unfamiliar with to receive a gun from another state for me, I always ask if they will receive a gun from an out-of-state individual who is NOT an FFL dealer. None has ever said anything but "yes."

The state's interest, apart from collecting a fat sales tax on internet commerce, is apparently that the gun and buyer be run through a CA-DOJ background check (DROS, rhymes with "gross"). Only a CA FFL dealer can do that, so the gun must go to/through a CA FFL.

Have your son find a CA FFL that knows what they are doing and ship it to them. Prepare for sticker shock on the tax and DROS and transfer fees!

Why would Cobbhead have to pay any tax at all if he is giving this shotgun to his son as a gift?

Unless his son needs the gun yesterday, maybe the best solution would be to wait until his son visits him in Colorado, or he visits his son in Kalifornia, and just give it to him personally. No taxes. No FFL Transfer fees. No possible shipping damage. No headaches.

Of course, Obama and all of the Democrat presidential candidates are proposing Universal Background Checks which would mean that all transfers including gifts from a father to son would have to go through an FFL. Of course, this amounts to Universal Registration, and that is the goal. Have you all called your Congressmen and Senators to remind them that you do not want this back-door registration scheme?

I don't think that's right keith. Even if I give a gun to one of my children who reside outside GA while he or she is visiting me the transaction has to to go through an FFL in order to comply with the Federal Gun Control Act. The exemption (gunshow loophole) only applies to residents of the same State...Geo

No brainer. Since this is a Heritage gun,
gifted from Grandfather/Father/Son,
it is exempt from any list here in California.

The transfer must use a CA FFL,
the ordinary rules for an FFL transfer must be followed,
including background check and 10-day wait. The receiver should be at least 18 years old for a long gun, 21 for a handgun;
if a handgun, the receiver must also have a Handgun Safety Certificate.
The FFL should use the DROS "Curio/Relic/Exempt" process, and add a comment "27870PC intrafamily transfer".

No Firearms Shipment Approval number is required as an out of state private party is allowed to ship a gun to California, as long as it is received by a California FFL.

You are correct Geo. I incorrectly assumed that a father to son transfer would not require FFL Transfer even if they lived in different states. Here's what the ATF FAQ section has to say:

(B2) From whom may an unlicensed person acquire a firearm under the GCA? [Back]

A person may only acquire a firearm within the person�s own State, except that he or she may purchase or otherwise acquire a rifle or shotgun, in person, at a licensee's premises in any State, provided the sale complies with State laws applicable in the State of sale and the State where the purchaser resides. A person may borrow or rent a firearm in any State for temporary use for lawful sporting purposes.

[18 U.S.C. 922(a)(3) and (5), 922(b)(3), 27 CFR 478.29 and 478.30]

(B3) May an unlicensed person obtain a firearm from an out-of-State source if the person arranges to obtain the firearm through a licensed dealer in the purchaser�s own State? [Back]

A person not licensed under the GCA and not prohibited from acquiring firearms may purchase a firearm from an out-of-State source and obtain the firearm if an arrangement is made with a licensed dealer in the purchaser's State of residence for the purchaser to obtain the firearm from the dealer.

[18 U.S.C. 922(a)(3) and 922(b)(3)]

If Cobbhead had gifted the shotgun to his son while he still lived in Colorado, he could legally take it with him to Kalifornia. I am curious about the last sentence in the first paragraph above: "A person may borrow or rent a firearm in any State for temporary use for lawful sporting purposes." Does this mean that Cobbhead could LOAN his shotgun to his son to use in Kalifornia, or would it only apply to loaning the gun to his son for use in Colorado? And how long is "temporary"?

Here's a link to the ATF FAQ section:
https://www.atf.gov/questions-and-answers/firearms-qas#b

State to state transfers are state to state transfers. Family or not. I would think an FFL would know that.

My observation is that California is not a friendly place for gun owners. Why take the risk of getting the son in trouble. There is certainly room for abuse under the temporary borrow for sporting purpose clause, and while it would be perfectly OK under the gun control act for the son the visit Colorado and have a FFL there book the transfer to him of a long gun IF the son did not reside in California. But he does.

The Colorado transfer idea seems to violate the California State law. Easiest way to handle this is for father to either ship the gun to a California FFL for transfer to the son or take it with him on a visit and do the FFL transfer in person.

keith is probably right about the tax exemption with regard to a heritage transfer, but it is not automatic, I don't think. The California FFL should be able to advise how to negotiate this step...Geo

Geo, you bring up an interesting point/question.

If your out of state son came to Georgia and you transferred a gun to him legally through an FFL Licensed Dealer, he could then legally take his gun back home to the other state, correct?

So does the same thing apply to Kalifornia residents? Can Cobbhead's son do the transfer the next time he visits his parents in Colorado, and then take his gun back home? Or can he buy a shotgun in any Colorado gunshop and take it back to Kalifornia? Can a Kalifornia resident drive across the border into Nevada or Oregon and buy a long gun and bring it home, or are there additional restrictions and hoops he must jump through?

I agree with Geo on not taking any risk of getting the son in trouble. And I can kind of understand why some dealers don't want to take the time to learn and navigate Kalifornia's crazy laws, which not incidentally did nothing to prevent the recent San Bernardino terrorist attack.