Having not had two dogs at once until the summer of 2014, I had not experienced how easy it is to train the second dog primarily by hunting her with the older. "Whoa" was far easier to teach and the rest, including retrieving almost to hand and backing was instinctive. I did find that her hearing was improved by judicious and sparse use of the E-Collar. LD, it's good to see you back. Fishing must be off in Baja. wink Gil