doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Just back from a great quail hunt

I'd as soon shoot clay targets....

Winghaven Lodge is another Kentucky lodge with early release birds. I was there Oct 14 & 15th of this year and can highly recommend it. It also has a bourbon bar to die for if that is your thing.

I remember my friend's son who would drag his feet every time we went bird hunting. Wouldn't get up, couldn't find his boots, couldn't find this, couldn't find that, so we waited and waited for him to get ready.

I scheduled a hunt down near Smock PA that had released birds. Did he have great time. Next time we went he was sitting on the porch waiting for us to get ready!!!!!!

There are released birds, and then there are released birds. I agree with jOe that, when the "put and take" releases are employed, a well set sporting clays course if much better. But, it's all in the way the releases are handled, and in the quality of birds released.

As Gil touched on, the highly touted Scottish and English driven shoots are all pen raised and released birds, I assume Spain's as well. But, the way they are managed makes the difference. The birds understand what it means to fly. Put and take birds don't.

One of my great friends manages a property he owns for quail, and releases about 1600 specially prepared quail each August, in coveys of 25. I usually wait until January to go with him one afternoon, and I can tell you that, coming from an old wild bird hunter, they are sporty. They will flush wild at times, and we will occasionally bump a covey that consists of birds that survived the previous spring and summer. There's not much difference. There are methods used by the better quail breeders to prepare the birds for release, such as very limited human contact, long flight pens, predator training, etc.

Point is, all released birds are not the same, by any means. But, I must admit, nothing is the same as good wild bird hunting. And, no pen raised quail tastes quite the same as a wild bird. The flavor of a wild quail here is much better, even if the released bird has been in the wild for three months, IMO.

Glad you enjoyed the trip, John.

SRH

I expect some of our contributors from the UK will chime in here. My experience in Scotland has been that the birds are VERY early release. The places that offer driven shooting either hatch and raise their own birds or else buy very young chicks. Initially protected in pens, but gradually more and more time out and about on the property--with gamekeepers who kill any furry predator they find. (The feathered ones are protected.) Driven shooting for pheasants doesn't even start until October, and I've never shot them before November; most of the time, early December. By that time, they're very strong flyers. If you've heard about the "Glorious 12th", referring to the 12th of August, that's for red grouse only. Those are all truly wild birds. I don't have that particular book by Valdene, and I've never heard of stocking woodcock for a shoot. We see (and shoot) a few of them when shooting driven pheasants and partridge in Scotland in December. I'm not sure woodcock can be raised successfully in captivity, so maybe they were trapping them before release, or something like that.

If you want a bit of an education into how the Brits go about raising and handling their driven birds, a book I'd suggest is "Private Thoughts from a Small Shoot" by Laurence Catlow. Catlow acquired some property and set up his own shoot, mostly just for him and a few friends. He goes into great detail on acquiring the young pheasants, building pens, and getting them ready for the shooting season. Makes for an interesting read. The commercial places operate in a similar fashion, but on a much larger scale and on a lot more land. On Catlow's shoot, and on many small British "syndicate" shoots, you alternate between shooting and beating. On the commercial shoots, the guns are paying for the privilege and there's a team of beaters and another of pickers-up to collect the several hundred birds a line of from 6-10 guns may shoot in a day.

I met some guys from Winghaven at a field trial. They were serious about their dogs and their operation.

Realistically, you can only have so many quail on a property, so on unlimited shoots, they have to come from somewhere.

I had the unexpected pleasure of shooting wild quail on an untouched ranch in SE Kansas. The rancher said he didn't have time for any of them "quaily" birds. He had beef to tend to!

Quail hunting with friends combines all that is good in this world on one sunny afternoon.

I am famliar with British driven game shooting where birds are released midsummer to be "hunted" in October.

How does put and take work in the USA? When are the birds put and when are they taken? What happens to those that escape? Do they acclimate and become breeding stock or are they all fox fodder?

Shotgunlover,

On put and take shoots, as I referred to them, the birds are put out the morning of the "hunt" which takes place later that same morning, and afternoon. They are pitiful. Many won't even fly when you walk up over them, and stay huddled on the ground until kicked into the air by the "guide". Sometimes they use flushing dogs to jump in on them and scare them into flying. It is really pathetic, IMO.

Those that escape are eaten in pretty short order by predators. Hawks home in on these release areas and just sit in a tree and watch for them. Occasionally a few will survive the season, breed the next spring/summer, and actually raise a brood. The ones of that brood act almost exactly like true wild birds.

Larry,

I have read Sir Joseph Nickerson's book, A SHOOTING MAN'S CREED. There is a good deal of information in it as well about raising the birds and releasing them, all I really want to know. But thanks.

SRH

My problem with 'put and take' and I'm a bit embarrassed to admit to, but my bird dogs are not broke enough to handle those birds in a gentlemanly fashion.......they catch them. Any bird dog man knows that is the fastest thing in the world to set a bird dog back. I don't field trial so I don't give a hoot if my dogs are that well broke....they can't catch wild birds. I've got a little pointer that is an outstanding grouse dog, but not totally broke, at least not to wing and definitely not to shot. A friend of mine talked me into entering his Ruffed grouse society 'fun trial'. What a joke. We used pheasants, hens that supposedly don't run as bad; well my fine little grouse dog caught 2 of them, and I'm sure she would have caught more had I given her the chance. Problem is....in this day and age about all a lot of people have are put and take. Given that scenario, it's not all bad given the poor alternative which is NO hunting.

Nice write up about how a gamekeeper uses setting hens to hatch and rear the pheasants in "Lady Chatterley" as well...Geo