doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Belgian W Richards

Again, I was not saying that all W. Richards were poor quality. I never even mentioned Belgian guns. My only intent was to show that it was a ploy to capitalize on the good Westley Richards name. I still believe that to be the case, regardless the high quality of some of the W. Richards guns that were made.

If it were NOT meant to capitalize on the good name of Westley Richards I believe the full first name would have been employed, for example William Richards.

JMHO, SRH

Could be far less sinister sounding reasons in real life than that. Maybe he had a cousin, also a William Richards, known far and wide as a ne'er-do-well, and he was attempting to avoid problems with suppliers or outworkers confusing the two. Or, maybe the engraver got a few more precious quid for engraving the whole name, and he was looking for cost savings anywhere he could.
Had the guns seen with the W. Richard's name, that William RIchards produced, been of second rate quality, I might believe that was the reasoning. But, all of them seem to be pre WWI, and superb.
There was simply no reason to attempt to fool anyone when you were producing guns of that quality.

JMHO.

Best,
Ted

Stan, the first of several William Richards gunsmiths went to work in the early 1800s. The possible father of this clan, a gunsmith, died in 1820, so it's quite possible that gunmaker predated Westley Richards [1812]. There were William Richards gunsmiths in London, Birmingham, as well as Liverpool. The quality of the W. Richards guns of Liverpool was on par with the Birmingham located Westley Richards as far as I have seen. There names were common ones, and I see no fraud intent. W Richards marked it's gun Liverpool, where they were made. I think Westley Richards marked their gun Birmingham and even London, although the guns were manufactured in Birmingham.

It seems like everyone but the OP's weighed in on this thread. Do you suppose he's still pissed off? If so it's too bad, he's missing out on some good information.

Steve

Since this is still going...the lightest doublegun of shootable dimensions I've ever encountered. You guessed it, W. Richards. Circa 1930s.



Yep! That 4lbs5.3 & it's a .410 (I think it was 2 3/4-inch).

Ya'll are still "putting words in my mouth". Capitalizing on a name does not imply fraudulent intent. I never implied that Wm. Richards was even approaching fraudulence, nor that the J. Mantons were.

Do you think the name of the new line of Turkish shotguns, Dickinson, is not capitalizing on the name Dickson? Certainly it is. Is it fraudulent intent on the part of the company Dickinson? Not IMO. Your opinions may differ, but with the quality of the best Wm Richards being what they are, why on earth would they have NOT engraved one more lower case "m" after the "W". Cost saving? Baloney.

SRH

Stan, how many prominent makers just used their first initial and last name ? Lots of them as it was the style of the times.

Lots of them, Daryl. But, how many of the others had the same last name as Westley Richards, and had a first name that began with the same letter?

Just too much of a coincidence for me. Please don't take my opinion as being a put down of all W. Richards guns. I believe each gun has to be judged by it's quality of workmanship, regardless the name on it. Gunmaking in the era that these guns were made was a cutthroat business. Patent infringements, claims of patent infringements, court cases, one-upmanship in advertising .............. competition was tough to sell your guns. I cannot prove that Wm Richards was capitalizing on Wesley Richards reputation, but until proved otherwise I will believe it was a convenient way to gain "name recognition". We can judge all guns on a stand alone basis. But, we are not in competition with other firms to say afloat, and make money.

All my best, SRH

Stan, the Internet Gun Club lists 13 gunmaking firms with the last name of Richards in Britain and with the first name starting with W. Only one is listed as W. Richards. I think your thought that W. Richards tried to trade on the Westley Richards name is faulty, especially since the beginning of the William Richards firm predates Westley Richards.

Do you think there was possibly some intent by Williams and Powell to try to associate with the name of William Powell ? Or visa versa ?

Just quietly observing and learning.
Dave