doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Guyot shotguns

I'm not worried about you belittling British stuff, I just think you're making too much of that Euro stuff.

And you mean to tell me no one in France, Italy, Belgium, German, etc, can service a Purdey, or a Boss or a H&H? Unless the gun needs something extreme, I can get one worked on here in the States.

And please point out an Ideal that costs as much as a Purdey (in comparable condition, gauge, etc -- of course). I would love to see one.

OWD

If I look on Gunsinternational at any given point in time there will be around 150 Purdey for sale. If I look on Naturabuy there will be around 50-60 Ideals of all gauges. Most will be field grade or one or two grades higher. The very top grade Ideals only show up once or twice a year. Last really good one I saw was an Ace of Spades Ideal in 16 gauge in high condition. Sold very quickly. Well over 10,000 euros.

Pre WWII production of Ideals of all grades was around 75,000 guns. Production continued after the war until 1984 but likely at substantially reduced numbers. Don't think anyone knows the breakdown of grades in numbers but I suspect it's similar to the American brands. The numbers are pretty small for the top grade guns. But what I've seen in the last 5 years of watching Naturabuy is the very top grades sell fast and depending on grade and condition between 10 and 20K Euros.

I have a photo of a high grade Ideal bought last year by a friend for 12000, the model with the side shields. In my file of over 20 000 pics it is mislaid someplace. I will post it when I find it. that shotgun is quality through and through. Not my idea of heaven, but really superb gun. If I went for an Ideal it would be the self opening Robust Ideal, for the robustness and the ergonomics, as well as the rounded action body.

Canvasback gives the facts re Ideal sales, no need to elaborate further.

Servicing by the makers is what the English themselves recommend in their adverts in the British shooting press. It used to be possible, now it is a buraucratic nightmare. Others can service guns, sure, but service by the makers safeguards the investment as well as the gun.

My Lunette trigger guard Ideal was re-proofed in Berlin with a March 1941 date.

Don't get me wrong, I like Ideals. I have a 16g No. 2.

But I have no illusions: It's not a Purdey. Hell, it's not even a Westley droplock.

It's a neat gun, but the basic design is not at the same level. Just look at the safety on an Ideal: It's a total afterthought that makes the gun awkward to use. It's almost as bad as a Greener side safety (but not as bad as the safety on Darnes).

If someone wants to pay �20,000 for an Ideal, go for it. People pay more for L.C. Smiths, and those guns are not even at the top for American stuff.

Also, there's nothing special about Ideals or Darnes. I've owned them. I've handled some real fancy ones. A nice English gun is better and easier to use, and so are nice Belgian and French sidelocks (and most of their nicer boxlocks).

The only mystique those guns have is why some people insist they're so special.

OWD

Nothing special about Ideals or Darne ?

That is the funniest thing I have read this month.

The fit and finish on an Ideal is miles above that of an L.C. Smith. I do not think the internals of Smith guns were finished with anything finer than an 80 grit belt, maybe they used worn out horse shoe files, I'm not sure.

I have a hard time ergonomically with the French designs but at least they were built to very high quality. They are nice guns but not something that sings to me for my own use.

a friend has a nice Guyot boxlock I would not mind owning though.

Different strokes for different folks......

What is so special about Ideals and Darnes?

I hunted with a Darne, not my cup of tea. The Ideal is different, mainly because it is a lever cocker. The thought that one action, squeezing the opening/cocking lever does it all is the mystique. Add the self opening action of the ejectors on the Robust Ideal, plus the less bulky top extension and it becomes something special, and a true round action to boot. I guess this is what attracts others to the marque. Not for everyone, addmittedly, most people are not that particular (obsessive?) about actions, nothing wrong with that.

There is something about the French (quirky) approach to mechanics that gets some of us. I still miss my Citroen 2CV.

No one is comparing a No 2 grade to an Purdey. Just as you wouldn't compare a Trojan to an Purdey.

There are people on this board that have a Georges Granger and probably a few other French masterpieces that probably hunt with or own English masterpieces or know people that have them. Let them weigh in and do the comparison between the two.