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Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 12,743
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 12,743 |
12 Parker Trojan SN 211440 made in aprox 1924- the later series w/o the small Doll's Head rib extension- I once owned a Parker 12ga 28" bbls M/F chokes with the straight rib extension. It weighed in at around 7lbs as best as I recall now. I have never seen or heard of a Trojan with a Doll's Head. Higher grades yes, Trojan no.
Miller/TN
I Didn't Say Everything I Said, Yogi Berra
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Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 9,409 Likes: 4
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 9,409 Likes: 4 |
I'm 99% certain I have seen Trojan Grade 12ga with rib extension. While I did not read what was on the rib I do remember unrounded angular shaping of the action. It was very good shotgun that goes largely unappreciated. Nice all original sample with some honest wear, but in excellent mechanical order can be had for just north of 1,000. It is kind of surprising because production numbers of Trojan grade are only few thousand higher than those of Winchester Model 21. Interestingly if I remember my measurements correctly action flats on Parker are longer than those of Model 21. Anyhow the Trojan is a "work horse" of a shotgun.
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 10,135 Likes: 125
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 10,135 Likes: 125 |
Last edited by ed good; 08/20/15 08:26 PM.
keep it simple and keep it safe...
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,164 Likes: 3
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,164 Likes: 3 |
Looks like an honest gun and a good shooter to me. Is it worth $4K? Not to me. Would I be seen in public with her at the right price? Hell yeah.
The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits. - Albert Einstein
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 7,724 Likes: 126
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 7,724 Likes: 126 |
Trojan? Straight rib extension, yeah; doll's head, nah...Geo
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Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 916 Likes: 1
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 916 Likes: 1 |
Since the subject of handling has come up, suppose we take an objective look at the M-21. My database has 16 M-21's, 10 12's, 316's, and 3 20's. The following is for 12 bore guns. A 7# 3 1/2oz, 26" bbl, 14 1/4" LOP gun balances (teeter-totter point) 4 5/8" ahead of the trigger, has unmounted swing of 1.23, mounted swing of 6.78, and compactness (note that lower numbers indicate higher compactness) of 8.89. An 8# 6oz, 32" bbl, 15 1/8" LOP gun has a balance point of 5 1/8" to trigger, unmounted swing of 2.34, mounted swing of 9.75, and compactness of 11.35. As you can see, there is a wide range of handling characteristics for M-21's; it makes little sense to try to stereotype them. Consider that an average Brit game gun (6# 8oz, 28" bbls, 14 1/4" LOP) has balance of 4 1/2" to trigger, 1.45 unmounted swing, 6.38 mounted, and 10.17 compactness. The first gun is "faster" unmounted than a typical Brit game gun and a bit slower when mounted.
Questiions?
DDA There are facts, and then there are opinions, some of which have little to do with facts.
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 5,954 Likes: 12
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 5,954 Likes: 12 |
I have no objection to opinions - have a few myself. Stock measurements are objective/facts. We rarely argue about what set of measurements is "best," understanding that individuals need differing measurements for best fit. Handling measurements are the same sort of facts. One man's "magic wand" is another's "whippy." One man's "pig on a snow shovel" is another's "stable."
DDA
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Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 1,676 Likes: 180
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 1,676 Likes: 180 |
I would defy anyone to show me a Model 21 anywhere on the internet that is selling for $2750. I'm not an expert, but I know what I like...  (Rocketman, I would surmise you're not handling the right Model 21's).
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Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 3,028 Likes: 125
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 3,028 Likes: 125 |
I read Rocketman's post 3x. I still can't find any evidence where he knocked the Model 21. He said let's take an objective look and that they are diverse. What's wrong with that? I'm a 21 fan and they are what they are.
Socialism is almost the worst.
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Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 3,245 Likes: 423
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 3,245 Likes: 423 |
Rocketman, I have a question.
"When did you add the "compactness" element to your dynamism measurements?"
I'm glad people like M-21's. It maintains a market for them. Mostly for looking at them however. There just aren't many applications for them anymore.
With multiple safes, cabinets, and cases of firearms, the evolution of where, with what, and when, I can shoot them gets smaller every year.
Out there doing it best I can.
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