doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion German & Austrian Sporting Guns @ doublegunshop.com Ident. German Drilling C. Adam in Coln 2x16ga, 9.3

Vadrilling,
I didn't see photos of the markings,but two numbers(after 1912,by proof house,possible by maker at any time)typically show the bore diameter(not groove or bullet dia.)and case length.Now we seem to have several possibilties for caliber. At first,you thought it was 9.3x72R,then as Sharps4590 pointed out,the numbers fit something else( like 9x47R).In your last post,you said it is 9.3x62R.There was, for a short time a rimmed version of 9.3x62,but it is very rare and not really appropriate for the age of the drilling. You provided a measurement for dia.of the barrel,and said you measured the chamber dia.As an amateur machinist,I have found that taking inside measuremnts directly with a caliper,usually differs from those taken across a small hole gage or chambercast; sometimes by several "thousanths".If the .365" is the actual groove diameter,then it would likely be one of the many 9.3s.A 9 mm bore diameter is possible in some 9.3 barrels.On the other hand,if the .365" is bore diameter, it would fit a 9.5mm cartridge(such as the popular 9.5x47R(MB)).You haven't said how many grooves are in the barrel.Measuring a barrel with an odd number of grooves is difficult,becaues the lands and grooves are not across from the opposite land or groove.You have the drilling "in hand" and can try different cartridges, but the only way we can effectively help is with a chamber cast.
Mike

The picture was added to the google drive it is IMG_6948.jpg
It definitely says "C. Adam in Coln A/RH."

If you didn't, you should make a chamber cast and slug the bore. I'm curious how you measured the neck diameter, shoulder diameter and shoulder length without one. Anything is possible but that's a rather warm cartridge for a drilling of that vintage and is obviously a black powder firearm. The size of the firing pins alone just about negate such a cartridge as the 9.3 X 62R. Smokeless powder firing pins are much smaller than those for black powder cartridges and for good reason.

ellenbr, There is nothing on the gun that says its a "Luck Suhl" or "Chase Gebr�der Luck Suhl or Simson & Luck Suhl" only C. Adam in Coln A/Rh. The reason it was believed to be from Luck is the imperial eagle with an "L" on the bottom of the buttplate, even though it looks like and "X" or "K", and the two marks on the barrel with the crown over a distinct gothic "L".

Thanks for your insistence of doing a chamber cast, I will see what I can do it may take me a little while to get everything together to do it, it seems pretty easy.

Another present for you Ford & it is not even close to Christmas:





C. Adam of C�ln had zero to do with the construction of the sporting weapon as DIM opined; he merely placed an order with Luck in Suhl. Why reinvent the wheel when you can purchase all the wheels you can stand in Suhl. If you require info on Luck, I provided you with the combinations and permutations that have the highest probability of netting you some info. Take the phrases & search/chase with your favourite search engine like DuckDuckGo, Google, etc. which converts the text into binary or Boolean operators/ ones & zeros and scours the bowels of the internet. Beware though, all(ALL) search engines less DuckDuckGo collect data on what you search in an effort to profile you. I have some info on Luck but it will take a bit of time to ferret it out.

Also, you continue to question the Imperial Eagle with a script L. Look at the worn image with a glass & then compare it to a calligraphy L. If you can prove some other mechanic made it, please do. With the serialization, I'd hazard a guess Luck made in between 1888 & 1890.


Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

Thanks Raimey.
Vadrilling, The photo posted by Raimey seems to show markings applied by the maker or dealer, for a cartridge with a 9mm bore and 47 mm case length.I would guess it is(at least was)9.3x47R.There are also a couple versions of 9x47R and about 6 versions of 9.5x47R,all based on the Mauser base case.There was also a 9.15x47R,but it was on a different case size.
When you make the chambercast,we can sort it all out.
Mike

Ford, that chicken scratching appears to have been applied by some rube. For now, I'd guess it a stretch to organize the 9, X, and 47 to a calibre designation, but it is possible. As you stated, a chamber cast will ferret out the demon.



Ford, what's your opinion, if any, on the counter sunk/drift hingepin?

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

It needs a little bit time, but now I got him. In an Adressbook of Cologne of 1895 there is Carl Adam, B�chsenmacher, Streitzeuggasse 90. He was indeed a B�chsenmacher and not only a trader, but of course probably he got his stuff from Suhl as Raimey mentioned.

Cheers,
Wolfgang

Capital effort there Wolfgang. I was beginning to think he was going to be elusive. Carl/Karl Adam had to be a B�chsenmacher(master) and be accepted into the gunmaker's guild in order to peddle sporting weapons(evidently there were some exceptions like widows, heirs & assigns). But that doesn't mean he manufactured what he peddled. On his walkabout, I'm sure he passed thru Suhl and/or Z-M and it was there he developed his sourcing lines. Again, lovely find.

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse