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Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 373 Likes: 7
Sidelock
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OP
Sidelock
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 373 Likes: 7 |
I'm going to be looking at a 12 gauge 200 E in the next few days. 28 3/8" barrels with original tight chokes, solid rib, double triggers. Anything specific to look for in a used 200? Thanks, Jeff
"We are men of action. Lies do not become us." Wesley
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Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 1,654 Likes: 68
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 1,654 Likes: 68 |
Just make sure the action is good and tight with the forearm removed. Some 200E's have articulated front triggers which is kind of neat. They are kind of bomb proof. I've got one in 16 Gauge made in 1954 and while its strictly a shooter its as tight as a drum.
foxes rule
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Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 373 Likes: 7
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 373 Likes: 7 |
Thanks Tut, I've got a line on 2 different guns right now and am going to have to choose. This is assuming either one (or both) look good. I do like how these guns are built and handle. Regards, Jeff
"We are men of action. Lies do not become us." Wesley
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Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 84
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 84 |
"JNW," while far from an expert on the Merkel gun, I would highly commend their Model 200E to you. Indeed, I think so highly of this particular ejector gun that the only 'modern' gun I own, apart from a large complement of 'antique' specimens, is indeed a Bill McGuire-customized Merkel 200E. Before the customization work could commence, however, I needed to undertake a personal search for the best over-and-under barrel set (28-inch) and action body to employ, as I then self-defined such. The Merkel 200E was considered and immediately went to the fore. It is exceedingly well-built, impressively designed, and perceived by its users as practically indestructible. These earlier surmised attributes have proven tangible, based on my experiences afield with my Merkel gun. As a trap or sporting clays gun, it is all I could ask; and as a sporting gun, it is equally remarkable. Everything comes together when I raise and shoulder this gun, whether I am swinging through or forward of the target, and do my part. Mr. McGuire made it a work of art overall; and Kirk Merrington, after he had removed altogether the lower barrel's traditional sling swivel coupling (Which thankfully was soldered in place and not brazed to the lower barrel, as one might sometimes expect to find with European guns.) and prepared the barrels for their eventual re-blacking, re-choked the gun to perfectly match my style of shooting. The gun is choked 1/4 and (barely) improved modified. I like the stippled Miller non-selective single-trigger, too, even after a lifetime of two triggers and the comfortable familiarity of the side-by-side configuration. I have slowly come to realize why the famous gun-writer Jack O'Connor was so keen on the use of the single-trigger (of proven design) by sportsmen, and better understand his oft-stated remarks concerning their practicality when put to work in the field. Regarding the Merkel gun, I was informed by much more knowledgeable friends that I should first look for the presence of a superior quality stamp appearing, if present, on certain metal surfaces. As well, if I could not locate a pre-war gun of acceptable condition and quality, I should look for a Merkel gun with an original mid- to late 1950's build date (The mystique of their status as boutique Soviet Bloc-produced guns only added to their legendary recognition for quality that had been established before the Second World War.). I am infinitely grateful my gun is not stamped anywhere " GDR," as it might have been if built later, but is instead stamped " Gebruder Merkel, Suhl," another greatly preferred mark. The superior quality stamp consists of two concentric circles and a large number "1" superimposed over them, with the whole underlined by two wavy lines. Below is a combination photograph of some of my gun's constituent parts that evince the superior quality stamp just described:  You should also remark the "953" stamp shown in the separate lower right-hand side photograph, which stamp translates to an original build date of " September 1953" for this gun. Thus, I was able to satisfy my quest for the best barrel set and action, and all within the parameters suggested by my friends. Following is a profile of my aforementioned custom Merkel 200E:  I wish you every success in locating a suitable Merkel 200E Model. Having found one, you will not be disappointed. Regards, Edwardian
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Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 373 Likes: 7
Sidelock
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OP
Sidelock
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 373 Likes: 7 |
Edwardian, Thanks for the information and for sharing the specifics of your gun. I will have a 12 bore in hand and a 16 from a distance to pick from. Is that a one piece forend on your gun? Thanks, Jeff
"We are men of action. Lies do not become us." Wesley
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Joined: May 2011
Posts: 1,217 Likes: 28
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 1,217 Likes: 28 |
You note the superior quality mark: The superior quality stamp consists of two concentric circles and a large number "1" superimposed over them, with the whole underlined by two wavy lines. That's actually a stylized letter "Q" with the "1" superimposed, i.e. "1st Quality" or "Quality 1". That mark was reserved for guns that were deemed to have sufficient quality to be exported. During Socialism, hard currency from Western countries was something the government needed. So, making sure the reputation of their [few] export items remained good was a high priority. Thus, the Q1 mark was rather carefully applied and still has weight. You've got a nice gun there. If was to go over to O/Us, I'd be looking for one.
fiery, dependable, occasionally transcendent
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Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 1,654 Likes: 68
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 1,654 Likes: 68 |
"JNW," while far from an expert on the Merkel gun, I would highly commend their Model 200E to you. Indeed, I think so highly of this particular ejector gun that the only 'modern' gun I own, apart from a large complement of 'antique' specimens, is indeed a Bill McGuire-customized Merkel 200E. Before the customization work could commence, however, I needed to undertake a personal search for the best over-and-under barrel set (28-inch) and action body to employ, as I then self-defined such. The Merkel 200E was considered and immediately went to the fore. It is exceedingly well-built, impressively designed, and perceived by its users as practically indestructible. These earlier surmised attributes have proven tangible, based on my experiences afield with my Merkel gun. As a trap or sporting clays gun, it is all I could ask; and as a sporting gun, it is equally remarkable. Everything comes together when I raise and shoulder this gun, whether I am swinging through or forward of the target, and do my part. Mr. McGuire made it a work of art overall, and Kirk Merrington re-choked the gun to perfectly match my style of shooting. It is choked 1/4 and (barely) improved modified. I like the stippled Miller non-selective single-trigger, too, even after a lifetime of two triggers and the comfortable familiarity of the side-by-side configuration. Regarding the Merkel gun, I was informed by much more knowledgeable friends that I should first look for the presence of a superior quality stamp appearing, if present, on certain metal surfaces. As well, if I could not locate a pre-war gun of acceptable condition and quality, I should look for a Merkel gun with an original mid- to late 1950's build date (The mystique of their status as boutique Soviet Bloc-produced guns only added to their legendary recognition for quality that had been established before the Second World War.). I am infinitely grateful my gun is not stamped anywhere " GDR," as it might have been if built later, but is instead stamped " Gerbruder Merkel, Suhl," another greatly preferred mark. The superior quality stamp consists of two concentric circles and a large number "1" superimposed over them, with the whole underlined by two wavy lines. Below is a combination photograph of several of the constituent parts of my gun that evince the superior quality stamp just described:  You should also remark the "953" stamp shown in the lower right-hand side photograph, which stamp translates to an original build date of " September 1953" for this gun. Thus, I was able to satisfy my quest for the best barrel set and action, and all within the parameters suggested by my friends. Following is a profile of my aforementioned custom Merkel 200E:  I wish you every success in locating a suitable Merkel 200E Model. Having found one, you will not be disappointed. Regards, Edwardian Very interesting indeed. My 16 gauge gun also has the quality 1 stamp with double triggers and two piece forearm. Made in 1955 and has a serial number lower then yours. Like a said earlier. Its a shooter grade gun and has the german cheekpiece and twin swivels. It is a dynamite gun to take out west, because I can shoulder it for those long walks and then unleash it when its time to come up on a pointed bird. I've thought about selling it countless times as its my only o/u, but it still gets carried and its not so nice where I feel like I can't carry it on a rainy day.
foxes rule
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Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 84
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 84 |
Fascinating discussion. Yes, the gun's forearm is one-piece, which provides an uninterrupted surface for the finely executed fleur de lis chequering, and because I think the single-piece forearm is more graceful and perhaps to be preferred, especially when one wants to break the gun down for cleaning or storage purposes. I do not remember why, but at the time I did not have the screw holes filled that once secured the second, upper-part of the usual Germanic or Eastern European two-part forearm. Although you cannot see this feature, the solid barrel rib originally had an unwanted mid-rib bead that was removed and the empty threaded hole filled and dressed when the barrels (also marked "Bohler Stahl") were re-choked.
I appreciate learning that the the stamped concentric circles and the wavy lines actually form a wonderfully stylized "Q". Perhaps this is because the German word for quality also begins with a "q", as in "qualitat"? I like learning new things about our shared interests. The "1" for first quality makes sense, too, as does your explanation concerning the influence of the prevailing East German economic situation and Western trade considerations as the primary causal factors driving their restricted use of this distinctive quality mark. Though the defining character is rather art nouveau-ish, in terms of appearance. Thank you for sharing this information.
The 12-bore Merkel is the gun I select whenever I expect to fire long strings of shots throughout the day, whether in the shooting field, at doves, for example, or when having a go with several rounds of clay targets at the club or shooting range. I select it because I do not want to over-employ the antique game guns I temporally maintain for future generations, by which I mean for expected strenuous exercises afield. The Merkel gun can withstand or absorb a great deal of honest use, as was intended by its designers and this user. I instead tend to employ the antique guns very carefully, selectively and respectfully, in a more limited manner that accords with their age and glorious past.
That said, the Merkel 200E fulfills my particular use requirements extremely well. And because it is a marvelously balanced, engineered and crafted exemplar of practical art, it is a pleasure to shoot, or to just look at while I rest and admire it between flights, rises or rounds at the traps.
Best regards to all,
Edwardian
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