doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com What Do You Look For That Says This Is a Well Made

Hi Mr. Vicknair:

In my first post on this thread I quoted the original question:

"What Do You Look For That Says This Is a Well Made (gun)"


The Beretta 686 production model is a well made gun. It is a quality gun. It is not a fine gun. Its fit and finish are not the equal of the Fabbri or the Perazzi SHO.

The Parker AH is a well made gun. It is a quality gun. It is not the equal of its contemporary Purdey in fit and finish.

I brought up the fact that the American guns, on average, are heavier because of the average American cartridge loading. So comparing the handling of a 6-1/2 pound Parker sixteen to a 5-3/4 pound Birmy boxlock sixteen is not apples to apples.

I certainly am not advocating heavy loads in any gun.

I always enjoy your posts and make it a point to read them when I see them in the index.

Mr Vicknair-

I agree with you 100% here:

"High quality is not subjective.
If it were, it would be perfectly reasonable for someone to claim that a Rossi coach gun or a 311 or an L.C. Smith are the equal of a Prussian Daly or a Westley Richards or a Holland & Holland."

Thank you for saying it. Some guns & designs are simply better than others. At the end of the day, not every kid deserves a trophy and not every gun is a best.

BTW: I would love to learn some of your insights into what "quality" is. Personally, I think the hard part is recognizing quality and then articulating it.

As a gunsmith, I'm certain you have a unique perspective on this. I would love to know your thoughts.

Thank you,

OWD

Another feature I look for in determining the quality of a double gun is the striking of the barrels. Anything less than a perfectly ripple-free surface on the circumference of either barrel is a sure sign that the overall quality is less than very good.

Could be that the H&H sidelock or A&D boxlock designs are fairly common, but only a handful of them might be considered best. Execution might have a bunch to do with it.

[/quote]

High quality is not subjective.
If it were, it would be perfectly reasonable for someone to claim that a Rossi coach gun or a 311 or an L.C. Smith are the equal of a Prussian Daly or a Westley Richards or a Holland & Holland.
They are not.
Value for money is subjective but that's not what the OP asked about.
The gun's intended use is also not a factor in quality, using heavy loads in a light English game gun would be nothing short of abuse.
The fact that the lighter gun would eventually "shoot loose" is not an indictment of its quality.
[/quote]

I think few would attempt to debate the quality difference twixt the 311, the Rossi, or the LC Smith, and the others. However, the real question then becomes which of the other three, Daly, Westley, or H&H is the "Better", best?
Better be careful.
Do you really want to be like the guy who married Jean Harlow, and couldn't get it up, so to speak, with the gun?
Hey, it happens. Seen it. With real big money guns, I mean.

I've only seen pictures of Jean.

But there is more to it than that. Like, the persnickety little fact that a 311, or any other gun of that ilk, has it's place, and can last and function as well in that place, as any other gun, that has ever been made.

At the end of the day, any arguments about "good, better, and best" mean precious little if you can't shoot.

More guys should worry about their shooting, then their gun.

Best,
Ted

Further to Joe Woods comment about the quality of the checkering on the top lever being a sign of overall quality of the gun,when I am vetting out a hammer gun,apart from the obvious things like engraving and wood, the quality of the checkering on the hammer spurs is usually a very good indicator of the workmanship of the rest of the gun. Attention to detail takes time and costs money.

I'd love to see a series of close up pics of top lever checkering, ranked poor to best. Without ever having taken the opportunity to examine all grades of double shotguns, I can only guess at the differences.