doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com How do you define a best gun?

You mean something like this, Chantry? From about 1869 and made by Joseph Brazier, Ashes, Wolverhampton and one of a set of three marketed by Thomas Johnson of Swaffham, Norfolk.



Or this William and Powell from Liverpool? I have never seen better workmanship though the action has slipped into oblivion.

I may be wrong, but I believe the term "best gun" originated from the English gun trade itself and English firearms "authorities". At one point in history, the "best" of everything was considered to be made in London(especially by the English upper class). Since the London gunmakers had a monopoly on the gun trade by royal decree, guns, clothing, and all sporting equipment coming from London was the "best" and everything else was considered second rate; Birmingham gunmakers being the bastard children of the trade. The idea of "best" however, was not unique to the London gun trade...Ansley Fox considered his guns to be the finest in the world; an opinion shared by Teddy Roosevelt who also owned English guns.
However, all of the criteria I've read that supposedly determines a "best gun" is simply a description of one made by a London gunmaker; a claim that would be challenged by those who own and shoot pre-war guns made by Austrian, Prussian, German, and Belgium gunmakers. Personally, I wouldn't give two cents for a gun I couldn't consistently hit birds or targets with despite the name on it. Have I adequately stirred the pot on this Joe?

You stated it quite well, Gary. Someday we will discuss the concept of workmanship as practiced by the old timers versus current concept. In the meantime a study of Chippendale furniture will provide a good primer.

And the Scots, being Scots, decided to reject the English idea of best..........

But if you walked into Dickson and said "I want a best-quality sidelock," they gave you a London-pattern Best. (Or they built you a round-action that looked like a sidelock).

Westley & Greener did the same thing, even though they had their own, proprietary actions.

And thinking your gun is a best and being the best are two different things. None of the major American makers built guns to the standards of a Purdey, Woodward or Boss.

Just didn't happen.

OWD

jOE, I took a picture of that fine Boss shotgun stuck in the ground holding up the last of my heirloom October Brandywines. If I find it I'll post it for you because I remember how you admired it.

When I figured out I couldn't restore it, I sold it down the road of commerce. Back to poles and string for 'mayter support this year...Geo

Chantry said above:

"At least for me and I suspect most of the people who follow this board, the problem is the new guns are just things, items that are easily replaceable, presuming you have the money and have no character or individuality to them."

I conclude that you have not picked up a Desenzani OU, or a Ferlib Minion, or perhaps a Darne hors serie. Not to mention a David McKay Brown of any type. I can't think of more individuality laden shotguns than these.

Anyone who can "easily replace" a Desenzani is a very fortunate man.

By the way, one Purdey model is made by Perugini Visin and none of us would have a problem calling it "best", even if not London made.

Bob Blair, well done for posting that Dickson, so that people can see what a best gun really is.

And before there are moans, take one apart and judge it technically against the best Stanton lockwork. I have done so several times. As for looks Gough Thomas said it best:

"In terms of sheer thoroughbred lines the Dickson Round Action yields nothing, nothing whatsoever, to the finest sidelock ever built." That from an Englishman who had best sidelocks made to his specs is a weighty statement.

Gorgeous and I've never heard of the first maker

My comments were intented as a reflection on the mass produced guns of today, not custom guns requiring hundreds of hours by sklled craftsman.